Should remembrance red poppy now stand for civilians as well as military?

Question

Civilian victims of war have until now been commemorated with a white poppy. Now the Royal British Legion are to expand their red poppy to include civilians.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/15/red-poppy-remember-civilian-victims-war-terror-first-time/?WT.mc_id=e_DM1118404&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_FAM_New_ES&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Edi_FAM_New_ES20191016&utm_campaign=DM1118404

Would this extend to include civilian victim of terrorists or extremists?  And even the lunatics or fanatics like Anders Behring Breivik themselves?   And what about victims of murderers? Or police on or  off duty?

The red and white poppies are both on Wikitree. (Eg https://www.wikitree.com/photo/gif/Arbuthnott-329 and. https://www.wikitree.com/photo/jpg/Arbuthnott-336. )

Answer 1

I agree with Danielle and Scott. Being a retired military person, I think we should keep it as a Remembrance poppy which has been trademarked by veteran's associations in many jurisdictions, particularly in the Britain and the Commonwealth nations, where sales fund the associations' services. Small remembrance poppies are often worn on clothing leading up to Remembrance Day/Armistice Day,  and poppy wreaths are often laid at war memorials. In Australia and New Zealand, they are also worn on Anzac Day.  Concerning other various countries, more info is given here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_poppy

It also has been used by veteran's associations to raise money for servicemen and servicewomen.  I myself helped hand them out for the Vietnam Veterans Association (VVA)  and Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW), here in my county in Tennessee.

Answer 2

I think expanding the use of the red  poppy for remembrance of victims of terrorist attacks from  countries that use the poppy as a symbol makes sense. It was first associated with WW1 armistice day commemorations  and then expanded to include the 2nd World War and subsequent wars. Terrorist attacks are a form of  warfare and I can understand the British Legion's perspective as explained in the article . I have a niggling  reservation though; I do think the use of the red poppy to remember the victims of bombings and shootings related to the Irish 'troubles' is likely to be divisive.(see link below)

I've never come across the white poppy being used as a specific memorial for civilian war deaths although it does signify remembrance of all deaths caused by warfare. I think of the white poppy  as a symbol of peace, worn by pacifists  and those perhaps  wanting to distance themselves from the 'traditional' remembrance  ceremonies  which they perceive to glorify war . https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_poppy 

Comments

There's also one for animals.

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Could we not create our own version that combines the two?

Answer 3

While this sounds nice, it isn't going to fit.  The red poppy is used in several countries, not just Great Britain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_poppy

In Canada it is specifically tied to remembrance (day).

Answer 4

In America, it's used as the symbol for the Veterans of Foreign Wars. And while it's shared with others, I don't know that it would be universally accepted to extend that far from its original application.

Answer 5

This profile is for for the Canadian John Mccrae, who inspired the symbolism of the red poppy in remembrance of those killed in action during WW1 - https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Mccrae-87

I'd hate to see the special nature of this poignant symbol diminished by careless use beyond its original intended purpose, in commemoration of Allied troops killed in action.

Comments

What is missing in LCOL Mcrae's Profile and in turn the Wikipedia biography is the circumstances which "IN FLANDERS FIELDS was written.  Written the day after his friend Lt Alexis Hammun Helmer was laid to rest.  

The poem was written amid the Red Poppies of the Flanders Battlefield.  Red represents the shedding of blood.  The poppies reminded him of the grave sites of soldiers.

The story also goes that he penned the poem and trashed it.  The poem was recovered and eventually published the publication "PUNCH".  As a result, we have the red poppies as symbol of remembrance.

Answer 6

No! Vets are vets and they're not all in Britain.

Answer 7

In my opinion, the use of the poppy is a personal one of remembrance.  However, for most people, it is only a response to social imperatives.

Veteran organizations need to be reminded what their purpose is and that is support and represent veterans.  

They came about in a period when the social network was lacking.  The need for veterans support has changed but still is needful.

I can support a limited scope for expansion of civilian victims of armed conflict i.e. involving military personnel.  Majority of terrorist activities do not fall in this criteria.

In Canada, only one police organization recognized as Veterans and that is the RCMP.  However, the police have a different network to recognized the loss and remembrance of their personnel.

Ultimately, the red poppy should be used to focus on armed conflict for remembrance.  Remembrance of civilian outside the scope of armed conflict need to be remembered but under different criteria.

Answer 8

The Royal British Legion now acknowledge victims of terrorism.

-Remembrance poppies are mostly used in the Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom, all of which are realms of the Commonwealth of Nations—to commemorate the servicemen and women killed in conflict. They are used to a lesser extent in the United States.

"The Royal British Legion said it was a necessary step to ensure Remembrance is “inclusive of all modern Britain”. The charity has quietly changed the language on its website, which previously stated that the poppy relates “to the armed forces community specifically, but not exclusively, and acknowledges the wider impact of conflict”.The website now defines Remembrance Day as acknowledging “the sacrifice of the Armed Forces community from Britain and the Commonwealth and the “innocent civilians who have lost their lives in conflict and acts of terrorism”.

Robert Lee, the charity’s assistant director of remembrance, confirmed that it had adapted its position ahead of next week’s launch of its annual poppy appeal to reflect shifting public opinion, particularly after the spate of terrorist attacks in the UK in 2017.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/15/red-poppy-remember-civilian-victims-war-terror-first-time/

From the British Legion site -

Remembrance honours those who serve to defend our democratic freedoms and way of life. We unite across faiths, cultures and backgrounds to remember the service and sacrifice of the Armed Forces community from Britain and the Commonwealth. We will remember them.

We remember the sacrifice of the Armed Forces community from Britain and the Commonwealth.

We pay tribute to the special contribution of families and of the emergency services.

We acknowledge innocent civilians who have lost their lives in conflict and acts of terrorism.

https://www.britishlegion.org.uk/get-involved/remembrance/about-remembrance