Who are the parents of Marie Françoise Forget m. Pasquier, and how do we know?

+3 votes
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Tanguay's Dictionnaire généalogique des familles canadiennes (Vol. I, p. 243) states that Marie Françoise Forget, who married Maurice Pasquier/Pasquet, was the daughter of immigrants Nicolas Forget/Froget dit Despatis & Madeleine Martin, but it doesn't show any baptism date, which suggests uncertainty.

Généalogie Québec says she was the daughter of Jacques Forget & Renée Guillocheau, but their footnoted sources for this claim refer only to emails from individuals and the text of the emails isn't provided. Confusingly, the same QC profile says she was peut-être (maybe) daughter of Nicolas & Madeleine.

Here on WikiTree, her parents are Jacques & Renée, but the same confusing text appears in her profile: she was daughter of Jacques & Renée and she was "maybe" daughter of Nicolas & Madeleine.

It looks like there's a marriage record of Françoise & Maurice, 29 Jul 1659 in Poitiers - it's mentioned in various profiles with Maurice's parents and both parties' ages, and one hopes that the parish record would also name Françoise's parents, but I haven't seen a specific citation or image of the original.

A possible small clue: Jacques & Renée are said to be from Poitiers, while Nicolas & Madeleine are said to be from Alençon, and those places are not particularly near each other. So if the 1659 marriage took place in Poitiers, that's at least circumstantial support for Jacques & Renée as parents.

A conflicting small clue: the QC profile says she was also known as "dite Despaties", which was Nicolas' dit-name and not Jacques'. But the footnoted source for this claim refers only to an email from an individual.

I was wondering whether LeBoeuf's Complément to Tanguay might have updated information about Françoise's origins, but it's only available in library hard copy and libraries are closed at the moment. I suspect if LeBoeuf had it we'd be seeing it with better sourcing, but it's worth a try.

Does anyone have primary sourced (not Google, not Nos Origines, not other people's trees) information about the parents of Françoise?

UPDATE:

Thank you anonymous! Yes, the sites say a marriage contract notarized by Berthonneau and they don't provide the name of the parish. Poitiers has a bunch of parishes.

The internet also thinks that Françoise's mother Renée Guillocheau remarried Maurice's father Émery/Méry Pasquet/Pasquier, also in 1659, referencing a marriage contract also notarized by Berthonneau. Aha! enlightened On NosOrigines for this couple, it says the information came from Jetté's Dictionnaire généalogique des familles du Québec. That book seems to be hard copy only, too.

On Geneanet, there's a text-only index of Poitiers marriage contracts, and both of the above contracts are in it - the children and the parents - on the same date. heart It doesn't say what the primary source for the index is, though.

Thank you Doug! Here on WikiTree, there's a link to an image of a 1666 baptism record for Jeanne Pasquet, daughter of Maurice & Françoise Forget, at St-Jean-Baptiste parish in Poitiers. I was able to find the same record in the microfilm archives on FamilySearch. It says her parents live in the parish of St-Hilaire-entre-les-Églises.

St-Jean-Baptiste images for 1659-1661 are missing. crying St-Hilaire-entre-les-Églises images don't start until 1668. crying

Thank you Danielle! Here is the 1663 baptism record for Marguerite, daughter of Maurice & Françoise Forget, at St-Porchaire parish in Poitiers.

The search continues!

Merci à tous!

WikiTree profile: Françoise Forget
in Genealogy Help by Cheryl Hammond G2G6 Mach 2 (20.2k points)
edited by Cheryl Hammond

DGFQ, p. 867 comes from Fichier Origine (including via Nos Origines), which is available from IGD subscription service available by some members.

4 Answers

+5 votes
 
Best answer
A possible big clue that can just about be taken to the bank is provided in the form of Fichier Origine stating that the religious marriage of Maurice Pasquier & Françoise Forget occurred in Poitiers, the associated marriage contract having been notarized by Berthonneau. It is likely that one of these records reveals that Françoise Forget's parents are indeed Jacques Forget and Renée Guillocheau.

I am unfortunately unable to follow through with that clue on the basis of efforts to do so via Vienne's departemental archives. Maybe someone more familiar with AD-86 can be more successful in that regard.
by
selected by Cheryl Hammond

Refer to p. 29 of the 2017 book Ancêtres et familles en Nouvelle-France, Volume 5 by Laurier Duchesne, which describes a double marriage contract notarized at Poitiers by Bertonneau involving, on the one part, Mery Pasquier, father of Maurice, and his bride-to-be Renée Guillocheau, widow of Jacques Forget, and, on the other part, Maurice Pasquier, and his bride-to-be Françoise Forget. The marriage contracts make it clear that father and son are serge weavers who were active in the serge weaver guild and that Renée Guillocheau agrees to endow her daughter with a bed, a mattress, utensils, household articles and other means for the new younger couple to live more easily.

I am not making this up!

See also migrations.fr website article titled Les PASQUIER Émery et ses enfants Maurice, Marguerite et René by Jocelyne Nicol-Quillivic, which includes a transcript of double Pasquier-Guillocheau-Forget marriage contract notarized by Berthonneau at Poitiers on July 29, 1659 with transcripiton by Yvon Blanchard dated April 15, 2013, reference being made to AD-86's E4-29 archives.                 

Another important source in support of this G2G question, including in terms of detail treatment of related double marriage contract:

For example, Google book preview snippet, taken from Renée Guillocheau search result, says : « Ce double & curieux mariage, bénit quelques jours plus tard dans l'église Saint-Jean-Baptiste de Poitiers, ... »

Lastly, Fichier Origine tabulation showing not only Maurice Pasquier but also Mery Pasquier clarifies better than anything else this G2G question including in terms of a digitized copy of the 29-07-1659 marriage contract as well as in terms of  Paquet-13 profile currently incorrectly showing Marguerite Pasquiers to be a fille du Roi.
PAQUET / PASQUIER Mery (b: Emery), fichier 243151 Maurice, fichier 243150
Statut Marié Marié
Date de baptême 18-03-1614 20-12-1641
Lieu d'origine Poitiers (St-Jean-Baptiste) (Vienne) 86194 Poitiers (St-Hilaire-de-la-Celle) (Vienne) 86194
Lieu actuel Poitiers Poitiers
Parents Annet PASQUIER et Marguerite Genet Émery PASQUIER et Vincente Beaumont
Première mention au pays 1667 1667
Occupation à l'arrivée Maître sargetier arrivé avec trois enfants Migrant arrivé avec son épouse
Date de mariage 25-10-1637 29-07-1659
Lieu du mariage Poitiers (St-Hilaire-de-la-Celle) Poitiers (cm Berthonneau)
Conjoint Vincente Beaumont Françoise Forget
Date de décès 1680 Québec, 27-01-1715
Remarques Quatre enfants sont baptisés à Poitiers (St-Hilaire-de-la-Celle) : Maurice (pionnier), 20-12-1641 ; Pierre, 22-08-1638 ; Marie, 02-01-1640 et Louis, 03-07-1643. Trois enfants sont baptisés à Poitiers (St-Paul) : Marguerite (pionnière), 07-04-1645 ; François, 12-01-1647 et René (pionnier), 07-08-1650. Devenu veuf, Emery Pasquier passe un cm du 29-07-1659 greffe Berthonneau à Poitiers, avec Renée Guillocheau (parents omis), veuve de Jacques Forget. Cm des parents le 04-10-1637 chez Me Solanne. Deux filles sont baptisées à Poitiers : Marguerite, 02-09-1663 (St-Porchaire) et Jeanne (pionnière), 28-03-1666 (St-Jean-Baptiste). Deux frères et une soeur sont baptisés à Poitiers (St-Hilaire-de-la-Celle) : Pierre, 22-08-1638 ; Marie, 02-01-1640 et Louis, 03-07-1643. Deux frères et soeur sont baptisés à Poitiers (St-Paul) : Marguerite, 07-04-1645 ; François, 12-01-1647 et René, 07-08-1650. Ses grands-parents sont Annet Pasquier et Marguerite Genet.
Identification DGFQ, p. 867 DGFQ, p. 867
Chercheur(s) Archange Godbout ; Jean-Marie Germe ; Guy Desjardins Jean-Marie Germe ; Lise Dandonneau
Référence DGO, supplément 1, p. 24 ; AGCF, no 15, p. 1-11 AGCF, no 1, p. 36, OEDV, 2000, p. 15
Copie d'acte AD-86 numérisé AD-86 numérisé
Dossier d'archives numérisé
Date de modification 2/23/2017 12/3/2019
AD-86 Archives départementales de la Vienne
AGCF  Amitiés généalogiques canadiennes-françaises (revue), Amicale des familles de l'alliance canadienne-française
DGFQ Dictionnaire généalogique des familles du Québec : des origines à 1730 (Jetté)
DGO Dictionnaire généalogique de nos origines (Beauregard)
OEDV Origine des émigrants du département de la Vienne vers l'Acadie et la vallée du Saint-Laurent (Germe)
+4 votes
The PRDH has her parents as Jacques and Renée and says marriage to Maurice was in France with the same date but doesn't list a location. First child born in France. No citation or image provided so not sure where the place came from (or the dates). I don't have access to LeBoeuf's work, either.
by Doug McCallum G2G6 Pilot (402k points)
+3 votes
hi Cheryl,

Took a look at Jetté for you, linked the reference on the profile, but one needs membership to view it (IGD).  He also gives the data on the remarriage of Françoise's mother to Maurice's father.  They all came merrily along together to establish themselves here.

Fichier origine has another daughter listed for Maurice and Françoise, born in France in 1663, Marguerite, baptized 2 Sept 1663 in St-Porchaire parish.

Oh, and Généalogie Québec referenced on the profile already is François Marchi's site.  Tanguay is who says she was possibly daughter of Nicolas and Madeleine, but Tanguay sometimes tried to plug holes with insufficient evidence.
by Danielle Liard G2G6 Pilot (307k points)
That's exactly what I think happened with Tanguay. He doesn't reference a baptism record for Françoise nor a marriage record for Françoise & Maurice so it seems he was making a guess based on name and approximate age alone. Not totally unreasonable, but definitely not something to rely on.

Thank you so much for the Jetté lookup!
+2 votes
I'm looking at the French archives for Maurice and Francoise marriage record.  Do you have any clues as to which parish they were married? Poitiers is rather large
by Kyla H G2G6 Mach 4 (44.8k points)
I looked in all the parish records available in Poitiers for the given date and didn't find the marriage record :(

I looked for St-Jean-Baptiste (since Jeanne was baptized there) and St-Hilaire-entre-des-Églises (since Jeanne's baptism record says they lived there) and 1659 isn't available for either one of them. I don't know whether that means the parish book itself is missing or it just wasn't imaged. I suspect that's why everyone talks about the contract and no one has found the marriage itself.

You are a superhero for looking at all of them!!

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