How reliable is this wikitree project?

+9 votes
2.0k views

My tree reveals direct links to ancient royals, like Plantagenet, Tudor, Capet, Valois, and so on. Now, I know it's to be expected if you're related to one, you're likely related to a great many European royals. But, am I really? I know my personal entries are solid, and my 2x great-grandmother from my own research connected to existing wiki entries, which in turn opened up the 'treasure chest'. I was rather viciously mocked for revealing this information when asked if I had any connection to Scottish Royalty; but the person(s) did not say why they found it so hilarious, or why they thought I was so ignorant. And, remember I was asked the question, so it's not like I was flaunting anything. My lineage does have about four or five women along the way, but still direct blood connection. How significant is that really? The prospect of possibly being descended from historically important people is exciting to me; but am I misguided? After all, it is the hope of every person researching their ancestry to find a significant nugget in there, like an Edgar Allan Poe, or a Winston Churchill. Is it not? So, when I first saw the name Greystoke in my line, I pulled at that thread until the whole tapestry unraveled at the feet of an English king.

Thoughts, please.

in Genealogy Help by Matthew DeVilling G2G2 (2.5k points)
WikiTree is like any other internet genealogy site. There is good reliable work and there is work with errors. There is well sourced work, and there is inadequate sourcing. You need to look at the quality of the work in each step of a lineage and make a determination of it’s reliability.
IMHO, there is nothing wrong with revealing information, as long as it is solidly true (beside copyright issues as a matter of law).  if you just believe that it is true, and say that, too, i think that is fine.  if someone else says that it is not true, they are revealing information about their own opinion, unless they can solidly defend their assertion.  mocking others is off-topic in most internet discussion areas.  just dismiss any mockings and don't even acknowledge them in any form.  i say i am sorry that you experienced that somewhere on the internet and/or by humanity.
I agree. Thank you.
Thank you for your input. I believe you are right in each point. I'm a big boy; the mocking did not hurt my feelings :) It made me think maybe these people knew something I didn't. Their best reply to me asking what was wrong with my answer, was something like, "If you don't know, I can't help you." Probably the weakest argument ever offered in the history of the question, "What?".

4 Answers

+9 votes
 
Best answer

There's always a bit of guesswork involved in genealogy. Say my ancestor is named Mary Quigglesworth. I can find a record for a John. H. Quigglesworth, showing that he had a daughter, Mary Quigglesworth. How do I know for certain that it's the same Mary in both cases? At best, we're creating a hypothesis. And, as with all hypotheses, it's the best theory available until we can find a fact which disproves it. 

In a more real instance, I have a line on WikiTree that supposedly goes back to Charlemagne. While I know mathematically that I'm very likely to be descended from Charlemagne (as virtually everyone in Western Europe would be!), genealogically establishing an actual series of connections over some 1200 years to when he actually lived is a stretch for 4 reasons that I know of:

1. Lack of Records

The further back you go, the fewer records per generation are available, making genealogy very spotty and largely limited to nobles and those in power. Some countries do have extensive records going back into the 1500s, however records are easily lost, damaged, or destroyed, so often very little survives. When going that far back, with fewer records we cannot definitively establish, with the same certainty one might have for contemporary persons, that there was only one John. H. Quigglesworth and only one Mary Quigglesworth living at a particular time and place, allowing for reasonable assignment of records to profiles.

2. WikiTree (and most genealogy) includes uncertain data

In many lineages on WikiTree, there is usually at least one kind of questionable or perhaps "speculative" connection along the way. In my own situation, there's a woman in Quebec who gets linked as the daughter of some minor noble in France. It's really tenuous. Everything before is good - Quebec itself has excellent records going back to the 1600s. And the French side is also very good. But it's that one tenuous connection that probably undoes the whole thing. 

I would add that it's good and okay to keep such tenuous connects, provided that we mark them as such. This helps organize information, guide research, and formulate hypotheses, even if it later disproves the connection. 

There's some info on a help page about this: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Uncertain

(I'd add that I came across an interesting example of how someone, back in 1997, was able to support a speculative connection because of data about the relatives of the couple. Speculative connections are a good way to enable that kind of checking. See Peloquin-204 if you're curious.)

3. Probability has a cumulative effect

Even if we're right, we're probably (eventually) wrong. At some point, our cumulative probability of being correct that a particular person, documented to be our ancestor, is actually our ancestor, drops below 50%.  Let's say that our parent child connections are, on average, 95% correct. When does this happen? At 13.5 generations. 

0.95N = 0.5

N = ln(0.5)/ln(0.95) = 13.5 generations

However, that's for a single line of ancestors. At generation N, we have up to 2N ancestors (although going that far back, we usually don't have all documented, and some pedigrees to collapse). If we are 95% right on every path, at N = 3, we would be 85% correct, but 15% incorrect for each of 8 great grandparents. 

Afalse = (1 - PtrueN)(2N

Afalse = 0.15*8 = 1.141

which means that, on average, 1 out of 8 great grandparents is incorrect, provided that we are 95% correct in every parent-child relationship that we have on WikiTree. Using a bit of math, we can obtain the minimum average probability, across all parent-child relationships, in order that only 1 ancestor in a given generation is expected to be incorrect or a non-biological ancestor (it could be more or fewer). 

Graph, which quickly approaches 1 and follows 1 asymptotically

As you can see, by generation 10, we need to have an average probability of 0.9999, that is 99.99% of all parent-child relationships are true, biological parent-child relationships, in order for only 1 ancestor in generation 10 to be incorrect, on average.

And that's just taking our assignments based on the paper trail and testimony of human beings into account. That brings us to the 4th reason.

4. Paper records don't always tell the biological truth.

Even if our assignments were perfect with respect to establish records, there is still cuckoldry or extra-pair paternity events where the father isn't who the documents claim him to be. Luckily that's only about 1% (but ranges from 0.4% to 5.9%)

If 1% of father-child relationships are incorrect, we drop down to 99.5% probability. That would mean on a family tree with 5 generations, one of those 2nd great grandparents is probably not your ancestor according to the math that we just examined. 

Conclusion

So when talking about ancestry based on WikiTree, I tend to be cautious in how I discuss it, and honestly should be more cautious than I am. I might say, "my family tree has a line that goes back to _____", rather than the more definitive statement, "I am descended from ______". It's very reasonable to say, "Hey, I have some evidence", rather than making a straight up claim of being a descendant of someone, especially when getting to around 10 generations (or more) back. 

Especially we go that far back, we need to treat the whole ensemble of genealogical information as speculative, even if we are extremely confident about all of the individual relationships in the chain. Even with high levels of accuracy, because family trees tend to grow in size exponentially, there will be many errors. And the further back we go, the more room for error. 

by anonymous G2G6 Pilot (139k points)
selected by Matthew DeVilling
This is fantastic, and a bit of work, I'm sure. Thank you. I appreciate the education.

In your reply to Julie, you mentioned this tidbit:

My work has been periodically checked and that gave me the feeling I was on the right track.

On that note, I think that WikiTree has the potential to present a higher level of accuracy than most private trees.

In good science, even well established theories are constantly being tested to see if new data fits the theory otherwise the theory needs to be revised. This is why you can still see headlines about Einstein being "proved right once again" (technically it's a failure to be disproven), for example with the recent report of a star precessing as orbits around a black hole. If that did not happen, we we would need to revise Einstein's theory of relativity.  

Good genealogy should have a feedback loop of constant checks. The profiles represent our best theory of a person who once existed. We should weigh new data against that. We should also check for consistency with other data, e.g. as done by the database checks by the "Data Doctors" Project led by Aleš Trtnik.  

Science is collaborative. There is one Theory of Relativity, not a different theory for every scientist out there. And so every time an experiment is done, it has the potential to modify the shared theory for everyone. The same is true with new pieces of evidence and our shared tree. 

Because of that shared, collaborative nature, people are constantly joining, contributing, and so on, there's constant feedback into the system, allowing for an increased rate of error correction. It might not always be great feedback going into it, but there's a self-correcting nature in large group projects such as this one - which isn't found in solo work.

And there's also some help in disambiguation. Because WikiTree is a global single family tree, with one profile for each person who existed, ideally you won't have records being misapplied to multiple people, creating false composites. It forces people to think a bit more about whether this piece of data really corresponds to this person. FamilySearch does that side of linking data to profiles better than WikiTree, however it's a bit of a wild west as it lacks something like our Honor Code, perhaps leading to less consultation and deliberation before editing.  Nonetheless, a great thing is that if I find a piece of information about "John Smith", and it doesn't fit my John Smith, I can also see if it fits with another one that existed. If he doesn't yet exist on WikiTree, I can add him and attach the data. That can reduce the odds that the data is used to modify my John Smith to try to contort the profile to fit a series of facts which are likely misattributed to him. 

So compared to many other possibilities, I believe that WikiTree is the best of possible approaches. That doesn't mean it can't be improved -- the exact opposite. There's loads of room for improvement both in terms of information and interface. If it's the best that we have, we really should make it focus of our genealogy time investments.

JN, I agree with some of your points, but don't think your math makes sense.

Where did you get the 95% figure you use as the likelihood that our parent-child connections are correct?  Why do you apply it equally to every generation?  Are you only 95% sure that your father is your father?

What about DNA evidence?

I challenge you to find a single one of my great grandparents that I have mis-identified.  

(Edited, then changed my mind.)
+10 votes
Matthew, what an entertaining post!  (And I'm sorry you were viciously mocked.)  I completely agree with you in questioning all our ancient origins that are shown on WikiTree.  Unfortunately, the problem could occur at any single step along the way.

I think many WikiTreers are aware of the problems.  It is going to take painstaking work, profile by profile, to fix them.  My own plan is to work back, one generation at a time, and evaluate what's already been done on the profiles of my ancestors.  If corrections need to be made, there are ways to do them, or at least get a review started.  You can contact the PM, place comments on the profile, contact a project if there is one, etc.  No one (or hardly anyone) wants wrong information on WikiTree.

Edit was to correct grammar.
by Living Kelts G2G6 Pilot (550k points)
P.S.  If you look at the math, it really does seem to be quite likely that many of us have royal ancestors.  Just Google "Are we all descended from royalty" or something similar.  

If you try and calculate the number of your direct ancestors, i.e., double them every generation, somewhere around the 13th century the number will exceed the entire (estimated) population of the earth.  So we know there was a lot of intermarriage, etc.
Thank you. I began my genealogy hobby about three years ago with a long, fold-out string of printer pages from my grandmother. She had hired someone to do the little bit of research for her. I ended up with the physical product after her death, and I used it to get myself started when my own curiosity motivated me.

I began on one of those popular pay sites, but soon found it was exceedingly easy to make mistakes in their format. So, I happened upon this site and was impressed that it seemed to have an answer for the primary problems I was experiencing with the other site.  Accuracy and oversight.

So, I went through the painstaking process of conversion, and the irony is, I've only gotten into my paternal grandfather's line, not the grandmother who got me started. And all the truly exciting stuff is on grandpa's side.

So, I was just trying to get a sense of whether or not it really is as reliable as I believed. My work has been periodically checked and that gave me the feeling I was on the right track.

Thanks again.
+9 votes
Recently I received a book about genetics, not genealogy, but a very good read. Insisted that, given human rapacity and mobility, it is highly unlikely that anyone alive today is not descended from Charlemagne and indeed from anyone else alive in his day who has descendants alive today. As ever the challenge is demonstrating it.
by C. Mackinnon G2G6 Pilot (335k points)

There's an excellent Numberphile video which explores this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm0hOex4psA

Great resource. Thank you.
+2 votes
I have found the number of people on WikiTree with actual expertise in specific areas ton beexceptional. Andthat is good.  You often see very well thought out and supported discussion on profiles.    I have more confidence in WikiTree’s members than many other sites
by Laura Bozzay G2G6 Pilot (833k points)

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