Question

Please approve merger for Waldeschef-2.

Comments

I've added the Euroaristo tag for others to receive notice of the post.

Answer 1

This is more complicated than a simple merge.  W-2 is listed with two sisters, W-9 and W-10, who are actually duplicates of her  They should all be merged and removed as sisters of each other.

You can add yourself as PM of W-9, but W-10 has a new PM who will need to be involved.  He is pre-1500 certified and can complete the merge

Comments

I'm not pre-1500 certified - I cannot take any actions.

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But, as Lois says, the 'new' PM *is* pre-1500 certified.

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You can in fact adopt a pre-1500 profile, but in this case, I wouldn't advise it, and in any case, you wouldn't be able to do anything with it but approve a merge.  I'm pre-1500 certified, and I wouldn't touch this one without more research.

What I THINK is that there is one Margaret Waldeschef and one Ralph de Shirley, with duplicates of both that need to be merged. But the question of the dates for all these needs to be sorted out before any action is taken.

Hopefully, a medieval expert will chime in on both the Margarets and the Shirleys.

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For that matter, the PM of W-2 is pre-1500 as well. She should have been notified when this merge was proposed.

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But this source https://archive.org/details/cu31924029787250/page/n45/mode/2up says there were two Ralphs, father and son.

Answer 2

As Lois mentions, there are three profiles for Margaret.  I've proposed a merge for the other set.  There also are duplicates for Ralph Shirley.  I've proposed a merge for them as well.  Once the PMs approve, they can complete (or I can!).  Thanks for pointing this out, Dan.  (I was engrossed in the Clean-a-Thon for the past three days and not following G2G . . .)

Comments

Darlene - I think the two Ralphs may not actually be duplicates, but father and son. Maybe. It would be the father who was the husband of Margaret.

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Lois, I'm semi brain-dead after the 3-day Clean-a-Thon . . . I don't see the mention of Ralph, son of Ralph, on the link you provide.  I don't have my copy of Richardson's MCA to see what he says.  The other sources I locate show Ralph's son as Thomas.

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The link is to "Stemmata Shirleiana"

On p 22, it says "By a fine of the manor of Eatendon levied  in the 10th of Edward II, it would seem that this Ralph was not the son of Sir Ralph Shirley by Margaret Waldershef his wife; he was probably, therefore, a son of a former marriage, as he undoubtedly succeeded Sir Ralph as head of the family ..."  His wife was the one known as Isabelle de Eatendon, NOT a Margaret.  I think there is a note referencing such a person in W-2's profile.

Apparently the younger Ralph was supposed to have died without issue, so the estate went to half-brother Thomas, son of Ralph and Margaret.

At the beginning of the book is a pedigree showing the 2nd Ralph.

He cites "Dugdale", but Dugdale's Antiquities does not mention this 2nd Ralph. (ETA: Yes, it does.) The Visitations of Leicestershire and Sussex don't mention him.

Also, on Genie, there is a listing for a "Ralph Jr" that cites someone called Nichol, which I haven't seen.

I think this account is sufficiently reasonable as to deserve investigation.

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Good information.  Maybe someone will run with it and investigate...

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So for now Margaret will still be married to both Ralphs?

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Investigation continued on profile of Shirley-192.  I think the 2-Ralph theory accounts for the discrepancy in the dates of death.

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Lois, I suggest you start a new G2G post regarding Ralph to get the attention of the various project members, since this post was merely requesting merge assistance on Margaret.  Since there were two Ralphs, you can easily put all of the information over from one of the Ralph profiles to the other one, reject the merge, and set one as the son of the other.  Both of them are referring to the same person at present.

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I have removed Shirley-192 as husband of Margaret.