Is Mary (Stewart) Forbes a gateway ancestor?

+1 vote
WikiTree profile: Mary Forbes
in Genealogy Help by Anonymous Dudley G2G4 (4.2k points)
retagged by John Atkinson

3 Answers

+7 votes
The Complete Peerage, vol. 6, p. 56 states that she died on 4 Oct 1758 and was buried 11 Oct that year at Hackney, Middlesex, it seems hardly possible that she died in Virginia in 1765 and was a gateway ancestor.

Although The Complete Peerage doesn't cite any sources for their dates, it is considered a much more reliable source than or the Ancestry family trees, which seem to be the only sources currently on her profile.

Unless someone can provide further reliable research around the 1765 date, then I have to assume that either someone has made it up, or there was a Mary Forbes who died in Virginia in 1765 and it has been erroneously matched with the Countess of Granard.
by John Atkinson G2G6 Pilot (486k points) have the Parish records of St John at Hackney, London and the burial of "Mary Stewart (Countess of Granard) buried Octr 11 1758" (image 117 of 168)

The Gentleman's Magazine for October 1758, also has deaths - 4 "Lady of the Earl of Granard" see here

+5 votes

Sorry but I shouldn't have been encouraged to look into this family because there are huge problems with her so-called Preston children.

Jane Preston (Breckenridge), John Preston, and Elizabeth Preston (Poage) are not her children or even the children of Phineas/John Preston by another wife.

Sources seem to disagree over whether her first husband was called Phineas or John Preston, of Ardsallagh in County Meath, Ireland, but they all agree that she had two children, a son Phineas, who died without issue, and a daughter Mary who was the only heir, and married Peter Ludlow, and was ancestress of the Earls Ludlow.

In Burke's Landed Gentry of Ireland, he is called John Preston, Dictionary of National Biography, calls him Phineas (and also gets the date she died incorrect) and Anthologia Hibernica, also calls him John.

Although they are not the best sources around, the fact that none of them mention the three children above is pretty convincing.

by John Atkinson G2G6 Pilot (486k points)

Ok so if I'm understanding this correctly:

There's two children who need new parents - 

John Preston (1699 - abt. 1747)
Elizabeth (Preston) Poage (1704 - 1780)

Changing their parents 'solves' the gateway ancestor question.

I think the source for CP, The Peerage of Ireland (Lodge) v. 3 p. 80 has the same story - it is written in a way which is confusing but it mentions they were married when he was a minor, and he was MP for Meath in 1731. The important bit with the children above is that Mary was the sole heir so those two children need new parents.

Also, looking at Phineas' tree, he should be related to Jenico Preston, 3rd Viscount Gormanston's 3rd son Martin (detailed on p. 79). I'm going to see if I can untwist this tomorrow.

+3 votes
Based on John's suggestions I fixed this tree. Jane Preston (Breckenridge), John Preston, and Elizabeth Preston (Poage) are no longer gateway ancestors & have no parents.

The ones I disconnected all mentioned they were from somewhere in Northern Ireland (e.g. Derry, Donegal) so probably their families were farmers who emigrated to the Ulster Plantation before emigrating to Virginia. Elizabeth's profile also mentions they were Presbyterians so probably further evidence these families were not related.

John (Phineas?) Preston was part of the English ruling class in the Pale/Meath, descended from his ancestor Robert Preston, Lord Chancellor of Ireland. I would guess this Preston family was not a significant source of emigration to the New World. Ardsallagh was a pretty notable estate with the Hill of Tara and we know the property descended to the Earls of Ludlow via John's da. Mary being the sole heiress.
by Kirk Hess G2G6 Mach 6 (64.3k points)
A quick note: Col. John and Elizabeth Poage were 1st cousins not siblings and I never found a source defining the relationship between Jane Breckenridge and those two.

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