Comments on Robert Ford

Question

On 4 May 2020 C Handy wrote on Ford-857:

This profile is a mess; Robert Ford, son of Robert Ford and Lydia, married 1st unknown, 2nd to Mary Heard and 3rd to Margaret Bayley; Lydia "Clarke" doesn't seem to've existed (and is a confusion with his mother Lydia), see here: https://www.colonial-settlers-md-va.us/getperson.php?personID=I037762&tree=Tree1 This Robert Ford is the same person as his "father" (birthdate is an estimate based on his assumed age when emigrating to Maryland).

I still believe the following:

Ford-1088 born about 1614 is the father of Ford-857 born about 1637, and Ford-857 is the father of Robert Ford-7214 born about 1664.

And I believe Ford-857 was married to Mary Clarke. 

Please help!

Comments

As a Ford,(well married to one) I'm well aware of how common the name Robert Ford is.They pop up all over England.I can find them in parishes within a few miles of each other with no common ancestry. It's hard to establish where they moved to because of this.

Family Search has another Robert son of Robert Ford baptised in Romsey in  February 1643/4 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NKGP-7Z7

 Unfortunately,  Family search doesn't have an index for any of the burials in Romsey  but  a Robert Ford was buried in Romsey in 1647 and another was buried there in 1649.https://www.thegenealogist.co.uk/search/master/?type=person&source=&search_type=person&master_event=Deaths+%26+Burials&fn=Robert&sn=Ford&kw=&yr=1640&range=10&search=Search  (details behind paywall so no indication as to whether they are children or adults)

So even in this one parish there were more than one Robert Fords baptised either or both of whom could have died as children. I didn't see anything in the changes tab to say why Robert Ford in America was likely to have come from Hampshire.

Looking at the change tab again, it had a marriage of Robert to Mary Clarke in Yorkshire. 

 He married Mary Clarke on 05 Apr 1659 in Brompton By Sawdon, York, England. <ref> "England Marriages, 1538–1973 ," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVT6-7MH : 10 February 2018), Robart Foord and Mary Clarke, 05 Apr 1659; citing Brompton By Sawdon,York,England, reference , index based upon data collected by the Genealogical Society of Utah, Salt Lake City; FHL microfilm 573,986.</ref>Pasted from <https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Ford-857&diff=next&oldid=70501680> 

  I am wondering how likely it is that  a Robert Ford from  Romsey on the South Coast is to have married a Mary Clarke in a parish almost 300 miles away in Yorkshire . 

.

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Thank you for actually looking at the profile. You are absolutely correct about the marriage place. I have been researching that as well as everything I can find about Ford-857, The research continues. :) Again, thank you for your help.

Answer 1

Please cite the evidence that shows that Robert Ford, emigrant to Maryland, was married to anyone named Mary (he is recorded as demanding headrights for transporting himself and a wife named as Lydia in 1667, see here). His son Robert Jr (born c. 1664) married 1st (unknown), 2nd Mary Heard (widow of James Tant) and 3rd Margaret Bayley, see here. The source cited to support the claim of a marriage to "Mary Clarke" is a record, from 1659, of the marriage of a Robert Ford and Mary Clarke in Yorkshire (on the other side of an ocean from Maryland); clearly, if Robert Ford was in Maryland by 1647 he probably isn't the Robert Ford who married a "Mary Clarke" in Yorkshire in 1659 (and in any case the only wife of record is Lydia, to whom he was married in 1667 when he claimed a headright and who was named as his widow in 1720).

Comments

Excellent rebuttal, C. Handy

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I have looked through the database you were using and edit, thank you for sourcing up the profile more accurately (the current restored profile really doesn't add up, and seems like a random collection of "accidentally" found dates) and trying to make the tree better and more accurate! Keep up the good work, especially for these pre-1700 profiles. I know how much of a mess some of these early US profiles are due to imports and ongoing mistakes replicated around the internet (from unsourced geni.com or ancestry trees for instance), and I salute you for taking up that difficult task :D

P.S. You might want to edit in more information in the biography next time, as a sole reference can make it really hard to understand how you reached certain conclusions.

Answer 2

Christopher Hardy completely erased Hardy-857 profile. Deliberate destruction of a profile is not acceptable om WikiTree.

Your sources are not documented!!!!

Comments

The sources were:

1. ↑ "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JSP9-H5L : 11 February 2018, Robert Ford, 08 Jul 1640); citing , index based upon data collected by the Genealogical Society of Utah, Salt Lake City; FHL microfilm 1,041,215.
2. ↑ Name Robert Ford, Age 9, Birth Year abt 1638, Arrival Year 1647, Arrival Place: Maryland, Primary Immigrant: Ford, Robert, Source Publication Code 2524.55, Annotation Date and port of arrival. Extracted from Maryland Land Office records of patents and warrants. Reference to original record or transcript and microfilm number are also provided. Other historical and genealogical information may also be provided. The first Source Bibliography Gibb, Carson. A Supplement to The Early Settlers of Maryland. Annapolis, MD: Maryland State Archives, 1997. 248p. Household Members: Robert Ford, Citation Information Detail: Place: Maryland; Year: 1647; Page Number: 82, Source Information: U.S. and Canada, Passenger and Immigration Lists Index, 1500s-1900s
3. ↑ U.S. and Canada, Passenger and Immigration Lists Index, 1500s-1900s] - Birth abt. 1638, Arrival 1647, Maryland, Age: 9, p82, Maryland Land Office records of patents and warrants. Bibliography: Gibb, Carson. A Supplement to The Early Settlers of Maryland. Annapolis, MD: Maryland State Archives, 1997. 248p., p 82. [database on-line]. Ancestry.com Operations, Inc, 2010. Original data: Filby, P. William, ed. Passenger and Immigration Lists Index, 1500s-1900s. Farmington Hills, MI, USA: Gale Research, 2012.

BEFORE HARDY-530 VANDALIZED THE PROFILE!

* edit for over-sized text

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My name is Handy, not Hardy; it's RIGHT THERE in my name in my reply to your post. I will thank you to do me the courtesy of spelling it correctly. Your "sources" refer to the birth of a Robert Ford in Romsey, Hampshire; the arrival of a Robert Ford in Maryland in 1647; the marriage of a Robert Ford in Yorkshire in 1659. There is no evidence that Robert Ford born in Romsey is the same man as Robert Ford, emigrant to Maryland, and no reason to assume they're the same man apart from a similarity of name; it is possible, and maybe even plausible, but it is not provable and as such the christening record should not be attached to this profile. There is ALSO no evidence that Robert Ford, emigrant to Maryland, returned to England after his initial arrival (as he would have to have done to be the same man as the Robert Ford who married Mary Clarke in Yorkshire in 1659 (300 miles away from Romsey in Hampshire, 4000+ miles and across the Atlantic from Maryland). The only record which plausibly refers to Robert Ford, emigrant to Maryland, is the record of arrival in 1647.

The information found here at the "Early Colonial Settlers of Southern Maryland etc" site makes it fairly clear that Robert Ford, emigrant to Maryland, had one known wife, Lydia, and was father of, among others, Robert (junior) who married thrice and secondly to a Mary (Heard, not Clarke); there is no evidence, nor is there any record, of any marriage between Robert Ford the emigrant and anyone called Mary (Clarke or anything else).

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Both views can be represented on the profile within a "Research Notes" or "Uncertain Relationships" section. Lets keep this discussion about the sources and not make it personal, please. Thanks! 

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G2G isn't the place to have these issues addressed.  We don't publically go after someone like this. Use the Problems with Members process  - if you feel you can't politely resolve this then submit a Mentor Intervention Request so someone else can step in and assist.

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Ford-857 and Ford-1088 are the same person. There is only ONE "Robert Ford" who emigrated to Maryland by 1647. That Robert Ford's wife was Lydia, not Mary. You can see that very clearly here, which says among other things:

Ford, Lidia
FF:539 SR 8204
Transported by 1667 by Robert of St. Mary's Co., her husband; service by
1663.
Transcript. 5:245 [SR 7347]; 10:499 [SR 73521; 12:40 [SR 7354]
Original. HH:43 [SR 8206]


Ford, Robert
FF:539 SR 8204
Of St. Mary's Co., immigrated by 1667 with Lidia, his wife.
Transcript. 10:499 [SR 7352]; 12:40 [SR 7354]
Original. HH:43 [SR 8206]

Archives. 4, p. 310 Prov. Ct. Jdmts. June 1647. John Shircliffe, Robert Ford, orphan 9-10 yrs of age. Nicolas Harvey, decd. Upon the motion of John Shircliffe that Robt. Ford being a child between 9 or 10 years of age formerly brought into this Country by Nicolas Harvey decd., that in regard of the child's minority and the death of Nicolas Harvey,
the child is destitute. Shircliffe desired that some person might be appointed to take the tuition of the child for the maintaining and nurtureing of him. The court appointed Shircliffe to take the child and provide him with all necessaries of livelihood until he came to the age of 19 years, in which time John Shircliffe to have his service in what he is able to perform"

The above makes it clear that Robert Ford who married Lydia is the Robert Ford who emigrated to the colony and is the father of among others Robert Jr and Honora. There is an unexplained discrepancy in the birthdate (I contacted the maintainer of the "Colonial Settlers of Southern Maryland & Virginia's Northern Neck Counties" database to point out the discrepancy he has there).

Answer 3

Okay, folks, please hit the pause button.

What's so powerful about wikitree, including g2g, is that you can use a QUESTION to explore differences, without going after each other.

For example:

What is the evidence that Robert Ford who married Mary  Clarke in 1659 in Brompton By Sawdon, York, England is the same as Robert Ford who emigrated to Maryland in 1647?

Asking questions in this way keeps the focus on the data, on the sources, on the evidence, and off of personalities.

Comments

Thank you Jilliane! Please remember All I did was mark the proposed merger as an Unmerged Match, suggesting more research is needed. I am not saying either profile is correct or incorrect, They both need research. I posted to G2G to try to get some help vetting the profiles. All I have gotten is attacked. I almost wished I had never adopted this profile. I am taking the marriage place off of the profile and will continue to research. It would be nice to get some constructive help on G2G. Maybe I worded the original question incorrectly all I am seeking is help to vet both profiles. Thank you again Jilliane.

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Consider re-wording your original question. (Actually, you might want to start fresh.)