Time to stop side stepping around the wives of John Abbey and Richard Goldsmith?

+7 votes

The cast of Characters:

Richard Goldsmith (d. 1673) said to have been married twice:
(1) c. 1625 Mary thought to be Mary Loring
(2) c. 1648 Mary thought to be Mary Perkins.

John Abbey/Abbe married prob. twice:
(1) Mary: fact: Mary Abby, w. John, sr., Sept. 9, 1672 [Wenham VR]
(2) Mrs. Mary Goldsmith?: fact: John Abbe married Marah Gooldsmith in Wenham 25 Nov 1674 [Wenham VR]

John Abbe Jr (for purposes of identification) married twice
(1) ____ ch. b. 1665 - c. 1677
(2) Hannah ch. b. 1682 - 1699 recorded in Windham, Ct but most prob. born in Wenham. Wikitree profile Hannah Goldsmith

First: There has been some confusion over which John Abbe married the widow of Richard Goldsmith. John Jr's first wife wasn't the widow Goldsmith (because she wasn't yet a widow). His second wife was named Hannah, not Mary, so she wasn't the Goldsmith widow. Although from the wording of John Jr's will Hannah may have had children by a previous marriage. There is no indication that she was ever a Goldsmith. I think this is a hangover from the above confusion. Hannah's surname should be changed to Unknown unless there is a source I've missed.

Second John Abbe Sr has three wives attached.
1) Mary Perkins alleged wife of Richard Goldsmith
2) Mary Loring alleged wife of Richard Goldsmith
3) Mary King she also is

Most sources totally ignore Mary Loring as wife of John. Allegedly she was the first wife of Richard Goldsmith and not the second wife who was the wife of John Abbe, but Mary Loring currently has most of John's children attached.

Mary King ? I honestly don't know where she came from, but unless there is a source needs to be totally discounted. She has a Abbe child attached.

Mary Perkins. The sourcing for Mary Perkins is pretty thin. There was a Mary Perkins who was a member of the Wenham Church, and an 1897 genealogy that just says Goldsmith married Mary Perkins with no sources.

What I think should happen:

  • Mary Loring and Mary King currently mothers of Abbe Sr's children by first wife, should be merged in to a Mary Unknown
  • Mary Perkins should be changed to Mary Unknown, widow of Richard Goldsmith
That leaves only Mary Loring. A biographer says that Loring was discovered as her last name by someone who searched the records of Enfield. Enfield makes little sense except that John Abbe's son Thomas went to Enfield, but why would he have occasion to give the maiden name of his father's second wife (widow of Goldsmith), first husband's (Richard Goldsmith), first wife's name. Mary Loring's profile has taken on a life of it's own. She's been given parents and a birth. In the bio, it says there is a possible marriage for her to someone else. I think Mary Loring should be disconnected from Goldsmith and a new wife created Mary Unknown.
There is detail from Torrey's sources in the research notes on the profile of Mary Perkins.
Thoughts? Comments? Objections?

WikiTree profile: John Abbe
in Genealogy Help by Anne B G2G Astronaut (1.2m points)
Christopher, I agree with Anne B's. suggestion on sorting out the wives. Please attach link on the profile to this G2G for future reference.

I know this has been settled for over a year but I came across an Ancestry "hint" that potentially adds some information to the "Mary Loring" as first wife of John Abbe.

U.S. and Canada, Passenger and Immigration Lists Index, 1500s-1900s

It shows a passenger named Loring (no first name given) with his wife (unnamed) and 2 children (John and Thomas) traveling from England to Massachusetts in 1634 (the same year John Abbe came over-no ship name given). If it was the same ship...it could be that they knew each other and Mr Loring passed away shortly after arrival.  The new widow with 2 children could easily have married the single Abbe.  The mention of a researcher finding the name Mary Loring makes no mention of whether or not this is her maiden name which could explain why the Abbe book calls her MARY_______. 

I know this is incomplete information and I apologize for that.  This may have already been considered but in case it hasn't I thought I'd bring it up.

Generally, I ignore all those passenger list indexes, because they can be unreliable, but I took a look at this one and it actually cited a better (not great) source, Virkus' Immigrant ancestors. That established Loring's existence. He has a Great Migration sketch, so he has been well researched. This guy, so he doesn't fit your possible scenario. Bummer!

Ok, Thanks.  I figured that it was unlikely but worth checking out.

2 Answers

+8 votes
Best answer
I agree, Anne, that Hanna (Goldsmith-43) Abbe's surname should be changed to Unknown.  In my previous research, I didn't find a source for surname "Goldsmith."  Please see my comment on -43 dated July 2019, requesting her surname be changed to "Unknown."

Thank you for your work on these profiles.
by Cheryl Skordahl G2G6 Pilot (238k points)
selected by Carol Baldwin
What she said. Great work.
+6 votes
I labored many hours over Richard Goldsmith's profile about a year ago, and on the question of his spouses' identities, as I recall, I wound up pretty much throwing up my hands.  It appears that for wife #2, I ultimately shrugged my shoulders and wound up simply accepting Torrey's "Mary [?PERKINS]"; this seemed to be supported by Al Adams's research (see his comment).  I'd have to wade back into this and recreate my previous research to form a more nuanced opinion, but for the nonce, the change to "Unknown" seems justified for both the first and second Marys.  I hope Al may chime in on this....
by Christopher Childs G2G6 Mach 1 (10.6k points)

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