In need of assistance confirming correct spelling and birth info for child of Belgian parents born in France

Question

***Update*** I was able to locate the marriage record thru FamilySearch.org.  There isn’t a viewable record but her name is recorded as Victorine Van Steen Kile.  I don’t know how correct the spelling is since I can’t view the document. I took a screen capture of the info and will upload the info to her page.

I’m looking for assistance on finding birth and travel records for Victoria Van Steeenkiste.  Per the Cert of Death and US Census records, she was born on 1 Nov 1857 in France to Belgian born parents.  There are various spellings of the last name, to include: Von-Steinkiste, Van Steincaster, Van Steykiste, Van Steenkesta.  Along with various spellings of her first name, to include: Victorine, Victorina, Victoire.

Since she was born in France, I went with both the French and American versions of Victoria, and the most predominately used Belgian surname of Van Steenkiste when adding her to the tree.  There’s various documented arrival years, but weeding out the unlikely ones, have narrowed it down to 1873 - 1875 from the given dates,  However, anytime between Nov 1857 and 1879 could be possible.  In 1879, she was married to John (Johann) De Baecke, possibly in Lowell, Massachusetts, where their son was born in May 1880.

Comments

Martha, what is the earliest document you have for the spelling of the name?

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Searching the Belgian state archive gets:

26988 hits on "Vansteenkiste"

6369 hits on "Van Steenkiste"

3 hits on "Vansteenkisten"

4 hits on "Van Steenkisten"

Answer 1

In Halluin, near the belgium border, I find a birth record for a Marie Léonie VANSTEENKISTE on April 1856 (declaration made the 4th, she was born the same day). Her father is Charles Louis VANSTEENKISTE, a  weaver, 24 years old, and her mother is Rosalie ROBAYES, 30 years old. I don't know how to translate her occupation bobineuse (something to do with bobbins in the textile industry)

View 394 - number 145

and surprise surprise in 1857

31/OCT/1857 Birth record of Victorine Marie VANSTEENKISTE, born the same day to Charles Louis VANSTEENKISTE and Rosalie ROBAYS

https://archivesdepartementales.lenord.fr/?id=viewer&doc=accounts%2Fmnesys_ad59%2Fdatas%2Fir%2FEtat_civil%2FFRAD059_MI_A_Z_2011_07_01%2Exml&page_ref=151101&lot_num=1&img_num=1

View 579 - number 428

For both, Desiré VANSTEENKISTE is a witness. 

Comments

I don’t know.... 1 day off... that’s a big leap!  Joking of course!  Have I mentioned how awesome you are?  It definitely seems like this is the correct person!

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https://gw.geneanet.org/bmatton1?lang=fr&iz=54520&p=charles+louis&n=vansteenkiste&oc=4

The last child, Marie Louise VANSTEENKISTE, died in Armentières at the age of 5 on April 3d 1867.

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There are at least two other children,  born in Armentières

Achille Emile (22/MAY/1864)

https://archivesdepartementales.lenord.fr/?id=viewer&doc=accounts%2Fmnesys_ad59%2Fdatas%2Fir%2FEtat_civil%2FFRAD059_MI_A_Z_2011_07_01%2Exml&page_ref=11586&lot_num=1&img_num=1

View 230 - number 205

and Pauline  (07/NOV/1867) Frame 797 - number 551

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The site isn’t allowing me access to see the information.

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Got them in the 1880 census, in Philadelphia

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9YBH-P2Q?cc=1417683&personaUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.familysearch.org%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AMWJV-F5M

Charles and his wife Rosa and three children

Lena, Pauline and Julius

Victorine is already married.

What's about Achille Emile ?

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Just found that too!

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There are agreement terms :

Réutilisation des informations publiques contenues dans les documents mis en ligne aux Archives départementales du Nord

Dans le cadre légal, et en application de la délibération du Conseil départemental du Nord du 27 mars 2017 (disponible ici) :

• La réutilisation commerciale des informations publiques issues d’opérations de numérisation des archives conservées aux Archives départementales du Nord est soumise au paiement d’une redevance et à la souscription d’une licence. Une demande écrite est à effectuer.
• Toute autre réutilisation est gratuite, avec obligation :
  • de citer la source de l’information (sous la forme : Archives départementales du Nord, côte), la date de sa dernière mise à jour.
  • de ne pas altérer ces informations, que leur sens ne soit pas dénaturé.

Votre responsabilité est engagée quant au respect de ces obligations ainsi que du cadre légal relatif à la protection des données à caractère personnel si les documents concernés en comportent.

Click on Je déclare avoir pris connaissance de ces règles

and also the website still uses Flash player 

https://forum-archivesdepartementales.lenord.fr/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=6743

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Achille Emile died in infancy.(01/MAY/1865) in Armentières.

If the family indeed left in 1871, it might be linked to the war of 1870

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Prussian_Wary

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And Polydore passed away in 1861 (27/APR/1861) in Halluin

https://archivesdepartementales.lenord.fr/?id=viewer&doc=accounts%2Fmnesys_ad59%2Fdatas%2Fir%2FEtat_civil%2FFRAD059_MI_A_Z_2011_07_01%2Exml&page_ref=151515&lot_num=1&img_num=1

View 38 - number 142

Answer 2

Bonjour,

Le problème, c'est que les actes américains ne sont pas toujours très fiables.

Dans le recensement de 1900, elle est dite née en novembre 1858. Dans son acte de décès, elle est dite née le 1er novembre 1857. Le déclarant (son fils ?) ne sait pas le nom de sa mère, ce qui laisse planer un certain doute  sur le prénom donné pour son père.

L'immigration belge a été forte dans le Nord de la France. Ce serait de préférence dans cette zone qu'il faudrait rechercher cet acte de naissance.

Par exemple, à Lille, une Victorine Sophie VANSTEENKISTE est née le 2 août 1859 mais elle est fille d'Ignace VANSTEENKISTE, 29 ans, tisserand, né à Meulebeke (Belgique) et de Sophie DECAVEL, 30 ans, née à Avelghem (Belgique).

Votre Victoire VANSTEENKISTE doit être issue d'une famille au profil similaire. Des parents ouvriers belges venus de la région flamande.

Il  y a de nombreuses naissances VANSTEENKISTE (et variantes du nom) aux environs de Lille mais je n'ai pas repéré la naissance d'une Victoire ou Victorine.

Comments

Bonjour,

Je suis complètement d'accord avec toi. Les documents américains sont loin d'être fiables, en particulier lorsque vous avez massacré des noms «américanisés» et des transcriptions de documents moins précises.

Je vais essayer d'obtenir une copie de l'acte de mariage pour vérifier la transcription, mais cela ne fera peut-être pas encore plus de lumière sur son identité réelle.

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Hi,

That would be great.

Do you think that she came alone ?

A Mary Leonie VAN STEINKESTRE, born circa 1856, got married to John Baptist BRUYNEEL in 1882

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2WN-J3L8

Marie Léonie is called Lena in the 1900 census.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M9JF-X93

She is a native of France (born in April 1855). Both parents from Belgium

and there is a Charles KISTER V. 70 years old, born in Feb 1830 in Belgium, listed as father.

Immigration year 1871

He is alive in 1910

Charles VANSTEKEST, father in law, widowed, 81, from Belgium Dutch is added (for Flamish ?)

He isn't listed in the 1920 census

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M4YX-HDH

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It would explain why his grandson only remembered his name. He knew him, unlike his grandmother.

He passed away in 1912

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/32369962

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I uploaded pics of US Census’ 1880-1940 (except 1890) that she’s listed in up until her death.

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I don't understand what you mean. Who isn't the right person ?

VANSTEENKISTE isn't that a rare family name.

https://www.geneanet.org/nom-de-famille/VANSTEENKISTE

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I sent that message in reply to your message regarding:

“ and there is a Charles KISTER V. 70 years old, born in Feb 1830 in Belgium, listed as father.” 

At the time I read and replied to the message, I didn’t know that Lena was Victoria’s sister.  

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Edit: False lead, birth certificate found, thanks to Martha recording date and place of birth on profile, see separate answer below

Possible lead:

There is a 1922 passenger list record of a Charles Van Steenkiste (with unnamed wife) and son Achille from Heule, Belgium (contact there Michel, brother of Charles), with destination Edmond (son of Charles) in Hamtranck, Michigan:

"New York Passenger Arrival Lists (Ellis Island), 1892-1924", database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JNK1-168 : 20 August 2019), Charles Van Steenkiste, 1922.

Assuming son Achille was born in Heule in 1896 I searched the Heule 1891-1900 table on Familysearch and found an Achille Remi born in 1896, with birth certificate #106. The data on the birth certificate:

Name: Achille Remi Vansteenkiste
Date/Place of birth: 22-08-1896/ Heule
Father: Charles Louis Vansteenkiste, 44 years, born and resident in Heule
Mother: Maria Coleta Degeldere, 45 years, born in Wevelghem and resident in Heule

The image of the birth certificate:

"Belgique, Flandre-Occidentale, registres d’état civil, 1582-1910," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GPDB-94LM?cc=2139860&wc=QZ9J-5VC%3A1009458701%2C1009489401 : 22 May 2014), Heule > Geboorten, huwelijken, overlijden 1893-1900 > image 384 of 925; België Nationaal Archief, Brussels (Belgium National Archives, Brussels).

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Jan,

Yesterday David had found the following regarding Achille:

Achille Emile died in infancy.(01/MAY/1865) in Armentières.

If the family indeed left in 1871, it might be linked to the war of 1870

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Prussian_Wary

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Martha,

I was on the wrong track, David had it solved already. I should have read the full thread... The Van Steenkistes I found are an unrelated (AFAIK) broanch.

The Achille I found is Achille Remi, not Achille Emile...

Answer 3

Oops, sorry David,  I missed that you already found it...

Hi Martha,

Thanks to you recording the date and place of birth on her profile I could find her birth certificate (right page, #428): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C3WV-Z3WX-4?i=582&cat=199709

French is not my native language, but I think it says she was born at 5 a.m. on October 31, 1857 in Halluin, given names Victorine Marie, daughter of Charles Louis Vansteenkiste (23 years) and Rosalie Robaijs (23 years).

Comments

And from there the marriage of her parents:

"Belgique, Flandre-Occidentale, registres d’état civil, 1582-1910," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9G26-974J?cc=2139860&wc=QZ9J-PKQ%3A1009549501%2C1009474801 : 22 May 2014), Ledegem > Geboorten, huwelijken, overlijden 1851-1860 > image 319 of 703; België Nationaal Archief, Brussels (Belgium National Archives, Brussels).

Personen op deze akte

Bruid

Naam	Rosalie Robaeys
Geboortedatum/Plaats	28-02-1835 geboren te Moorsele
Woonplaats	Ledegem
Beroep	Weefster

Bruidegom

Naam	Karolus Ludovicus Vansteenkiste
Geboortedatum/Plaats	23-01-1831 geboren te Sint-Eloois-Winkel
Woonplaats	Halluin (F59)
Beroep	Wever

Vader bruidegom

Naam	Petrus Joseph Vansteenkiste
Overlijdensdatum/Plaats	18-10-1847 te Sint-eloois-winkel

Moeder bruidegom

Naam	Fidelia Pinnoo
Overlijdensdatum/Plaats	10-09-1847 te Sint-eloois-winkel

Moeder bruid

24-09-1837 te Ledegem

Naam	Francisca Robaeys
Overlijdensdatum/Plaats

Type akte	Burgerlijke Stand / Huwelijksakte
Gemeente	Ledegem
Inhoudsomschrijving	Huwelijksakte
Aktedatum	02-06-1855