I need help join Kooiman-61 as father of my ancestor Kooiman-36 99S1-24S

Question

Dutch_Roots Project Team help needed on this protected profile.

My ancestry ends at Kooiman-36. I found Kooiman-61 as the father of Kooiman-36 according to FamilySearch IDs LDBH-GZW and 99S1-24S.

My grandmother Gertrude Coleman of Newark NJ is a descendant of this family. I am so happy to, last night, uncover the deeper history of this line to deeply researched direct ancestry to 1595. The origin of the word 'decoy' now understood (kooi men collecting eggs from migrating ducks setting down next to tame ducks in the kooi sanctuary)

Comments

Hello Robert.

Adding the tag DUTCH_ROOTS to your post may help to catch their attention.

(In the line "Surnames/Tags")

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Is the familysearch a document or an unsourced tree?

Unsourced trees are not sources. They should not be

listed on the profiles as sources.

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sources are below

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Klaas Kooijman

 in the Netherlands, Death Index, 1795-1969

No Image
Text-only collection

Name:	Klaas Kooijman
Age:	81
Birth Date:	abt 1767
Birth Place:	Andijk
Death Date:	16 okt 1848 (16 Oct 1848)
Death Place:	Enkhuizen
Father:	Reinder Kooijman
URL:	https://www.wiewaswie.nl/perso... This record is not from Ancestry and will open in a new window. You may need to search for the record when the web page opens. For more information on web records, click here. You will need to log-in or register to save this record to your tree.

Source Citation

Noord-Hollands Archief; Den Haag, Nederland; Burgerlijke stand (overlijdensakten)

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Teetje Kooiman

 in the Netherlands, Civil Marriage Index, 1795-1950

Name:	Teetje Kooiman
Gender:	Vrouwelijk (Female)
Age:	19
Birth Date:	abt 1796
Marriage Date:	25 jun 1815
Marriage Place:	Andijk
Father:	Klaas Kooiman
Mother:	Fokeltje Ham
Spouse:	Aris Bil
URL:	https://www.wiewaswie.nl/perso... This record is not from Ancestry and will open in a new window. You may need to search for the record when the web page opens. For more information on web records, click here. You will need to log-in or register to save this record to your tree.

Source Citation

Noord-Hollands Archief; Den Haag, Nederland; BS Marriage

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This is a primary database for the Netherlands

https://www.wiewaswie.nl/en/

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https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Kooiman-61

Project Protected profile

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Thank you Ruben.

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Thank you Eddie. I appreciate the clarification on sources. My first time using the FamilySearch match feature and to me it looked like it brought through to Wikitree source, or perhaps, source of sources.  

I am now figuring someone from the Dutch Project will need to make the connection on my behalf since their first related name after the last name I have is protected.

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You should ask to join the project. But BEWARE, my new friend, research standards are …...ohmygosh!!!!!   

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(kooi men collecting eggs from migrating ducks setting down next to tame ducks in the kooi sanctuary)

Your explanation of what a kooiman or kooiker did is not completely correct. The purpose of a kooi or eendenkooi was not collecting eggs, but catching the wild ducks themselves for their meat.

See for example:

https://www.eendenkooien.nl/de-vangpijp

https://biesboschbeleven.nl/over-de-eendenkooi

Answer 1

Hello Robert.  Since I am also a manager of Rijndert Klaasz Kooiman, I connected him to your ancestor Klaas Reijndersz Kooiman.  I did some comparing of the two profiles and discovered they are indeed father and son - Klaas is actually listed on Rijndert's profile.  

I would highly suggest joining the Dutch Roots project and learning how we source. 

Rather than Family Search, I tend to go to Dutch sources.  Family Search has a category that works well for sourcing if you can't find something better.  Since Andijk is in West Friesland (part of Noord-Holland), I use the Westfries Archief at https://www.westfriesarchief.nl/onderzoek/zoeken/personen.  It gives me copies of the original documents as well as an understandable cover sheet that's typed.  There are also several notary documents here that give more information about some people and have confirmed several relationships. 

If you'd like, I can look up Teet Jans Groot's parents and get her connected to your line as well.  I've worked extensively on Andijk families that are currently listed in WikiTree, and it's likely she connects with one of the two Andijk Groot families.  Her parents may or may not already be on WikiTree; her grandparents almost certainly are.  I can also check on Fokeltje Jacobs Ham's parents in a separate Lutjebroek baptism document I have often used.  Her family may be more time consuming to construct. If you want any of this help, contact me personally and I'll be glad to work with you.  

Comments

Bertram,

I am so grateful to become acquainted with you. It was strange, I was asking another about how to merge -36 and -61 a few minutes ago, when I ran dynamic tree one more time and, poof, there it was!  

I will join the project. I'm not sure if you saw the origin of my work on this this month. Years ago my father acquired handwritten family charts crafted by Ype Brouwers in the early 1980s, on behalf of a Carol DeVries (now 90). It was from these records I began pouring in my family lines, leading to you! I jumped from joy when I found the Kooiman-61 record to see how much else existed about this family, and the fabulous research on families, work, religion, locations, etc. I called my father right away. He is overjoyed. His mother, Gertrude Coleman, had parents Kooiman, later Coleman, and De Vries.

I have struggled a bit with the naming conventions but slowly grasping the name reversals, no middle names, etc. But I think i have some clean up to do, especially setting last name at birth.

Recently I had tallied the grandparents for my kids, which was 350. This Kooiman work, and the suggestions you are making about further connections broadens are recorded answers by 50+ !

I am astounded by the number of family lines my kids have to the 17th, 16th, 15th, and even now 14th centuries.

As I described some of the stories in the biographies I think I've inspired dad, 98, to make our next trip to Andijk and the other side of the bay to Friesland where the DeVries came from.

Robert Schott

Cranford, New Jersey, USA

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OK, I've found Teet Jans Groot's lineage.  It's been added to WikiTree.  As I suspected, they attached to others already on the site within 2 generations.

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If you do happen to get to Andijk, you'll want to go to Enkhuizen next door to the Zuiderzee museum.  It shows you how people lived in the area a few hundred years ago!

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Bertram, guess what I discovered in the ancestry of Teet Jans Groot? She has a common ancestor with her husband Rijndert Claasz Kooiman.  Both have great great grandfather Cornelis Maertsz-4 !

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That happens a lot in Andijk records.  Interesting, isn't it?  

I've just put several ancestors of Fokeltje Jacobs Ham on her profile.  It's all from notary files.  I didn't try to do any translating from Dutch.  Would you be interested in my giving you some links to possible baptism / marriage records from different towns for you to search for ancestors and their siblings in?

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I spent some time finding records of Fokeltje Ham's ancestors.  For the most part, they only appeared in notary records on Westfries Archief.  I took the information from the cover pages; there are lots of documents to go through (they're all in Dutch) to give more specifics about the families.  I think we have your West Frisian wall broken now.  I could send you the link to the baptisms of Winkel - one of the wives came from there.  The way the records are written, they will be quite difficult to sift through.

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There's also a Frisian site for your Frisian ancestry.  I did one quick look-up under Duye Fockes Roukema.  I immediately found Sietske's death record along with both parents' names at https://allefriezen.nl/zoeken/persons?ss=%7B%22q%22:%22Duye%20Roukema%22%7D.  AlleFriezen is a very good site to keep searching on.  Duye's parents are found in the 4th listing.  If you need help with some Dutch words, or if you just need some hints on how to search for deeper ancestors, please let me know and I'll help you.  

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Bertram, just a hint:

The link you gave leads to a result list. To point exactly at the relevant record one can give the link gotten by clicking the link (chain) symbol at the right side. like this: https://allefriezen.nl/en/search/deeds/13c044b9-2a87-4968-b2a5-0a88655abd54?person=0c8f61aa-4e9b-4026-47f9-75c411dd7457

Note that I also selected (top right) English for the user interface.

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Good point, Jan. That will help Robert when navigating the site.  I wanted to show him that there are several listings of this ancestor at AlleFriezen, thus my choice.

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Agreed Bertram, thank you!

Answer 2

Hi there! You're right - a Dutch Roots project leader will be able to make this connection. I have just added in some more sources to let them easily verify the relationship (https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Kooiman-36). I would be wary of solely using the FamilySearch tree. There are several important sites for doing Dutch research, a good start would be this list https://www.dutchgenealogy.nl/top-10-dutch-genealogy-websites/ . The Dutch genealogy blog will also explain a lot of Dutch genealogy terms in English :)