Question

Looking for details, ancestors or children of Harry Loader, born 1880 at (I think) Notting Hill, London

Comments

Any ideas at all regards names of parents?

GRO has one Harry Loader registered for 1880, but in Basingstoke, Berkshire/Hampshire, not London.

GRO has 2 registrations for London districts for 1878 - one in Kensington, the other in Islington.

GRO has one for 1883, also not London (Solihull, Warwickshire/Worcestershire).

---

Notting Hill would be in the Kensington registration district.

---

Yeah, I know .. it was the 1880 versus 1878 that had me concerned -- but his age fluctuates and I believe the 1878 Kensington registration to be the correct one.

---

EDIT. NOT RIGHT HARRY

See next and subsequent comments.

A marriage in 1905 but aged 24

Henry Loader GRO 1879 D quarter Kensington Vol A p 163 moth maid name Allen

Charles Loader married Ann Allen at St Paul, Paddington in 1874

---

William Henry Loader born 1902, is the son of Harry and Hannah.  Marriage of Harry and Hannah names Harry's father as Harry, not Charles.

The Henry born to Charles and Ann Allen was married to Alice Witherington.

---

Hadn't seen child agree Henry b 1879 is not right.

Here's another rabbit hole.

Harry  1878 b in Kensington  seems to be the son of Ann (Keefe).He and sister, Frances  aged 10 are on   1891 census with mother  b in Maryleone.  Sister Frances,  1890.reg  also has moth maiden name Keefe

 It  then gets really confusing

A Bridget Keith father Cornelius married a Henry Loader at St John Notting Hill in 1865. Henry was a coach painter https://www.ancestry.co.uk/sharing/20957887?h=3a586b&utm_campaign=bandido-webparts&utm_source=post-share-modal&utm_medium=copy-url

The 1871 census has Henry Loader , coach painter with wife Ann born in Killarney.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/sharing/20959170?h=a66460&utm_campaign=bandido-webparts&utm_source=post-share-modal&utm_medium=copy-url

 Their Children, Augustus 1866, Edmund 1868 and Rosa 1869 were reg Kensington  with moth. maid. name Keefe 

1881 census has all the children and wife Ann born Marylebone

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/sharing/20959103?h=46a780&utm_campaign=bandido-webparts&utm_source=post-share-modal&utm_medium=copy-url

Bridget d of Cornelius appears b 1842, Ireland in St Anne, Soho in 1851.

(Bridget had  younger sister Anna born in London so wondered about dead wife's sister scenario but Anna married  a Marshall and was still living.)

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/sharing/20959191?h=0fa71e&utm_campaign=bandido-webparts&utm_source=post-share-modal&utm_medium=copy-url

edited to correct 1881 link and add others

---

Yes I hadn't picked up Harry's father was Henry.

So we now have Harry born Kensington 1878 with mother's name maiden Keefe, although going by Henry in 1881 & 1891 Census.

This is family unit in 1881:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK65-3TFM

---

1891 census has Ann Keefe born in Kensington, note Marylebone (that's1881). 

Edit : Augustus married Jessie Buck in 1896.  Jessie died in 1898,and Augustus then married either Gertrude Bonn or Elizabeth Stone (I haven't  checked that far).

There were also two babies named Henry who both died soon after birth - Henry the first : born and died before 31 December 1871; and Henry the second : born before 31 December 1872 and died before 31 March 1876.

Then there was baby Annie : born before 30 September 1874, died before 31 December 1877.

I'm guessing two dead Henry babies is why the next one was Harry.

---

 brother Cornelius in the workhouse? 

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/sharing/20959233?h=967400&utm_campaign=bandido-webparts&utm_source=post-share-modal&utm_medium=copy-url

Augustus married 2).Gertude

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/sharing/20959319?h=574b02&utm_campaign=bandido-webparts&utm_source=post-share-modal&utm_medium=copy-url

Augustus Henry Loader died in 1943. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/sharing/20959400?h=241e89&utm_campaign=bandido-webparts&utm_source=post-share-modal&utm_medium=copy-url

 Probate  on effects worth £452 16s 5d was granted to the Treasury Solicitor (I've not seen that before. At a guess he had no will and  no-one to act as executor) https://www.ancestry.co.uk/sharing/20959358?h=010047&utm_campaign=bandido-webparts&utm_source=post-share-modal&utm_medium=copy-url

---

Edit : Augustus married Jessie Buck in 1896.  Jessie died in 1898,and Augustus then married either Gertrude Bonn or Elizabeth Stone (I haven't  checked that far).

I have now checked and the census returns for 1901 and 1911 name wife as Gertrude, born Germany. 

---

I was right, they were looking for beneciary  for Austus's estate

.(newspaper cutting). His mother is noted by hand as being Bridget Judy  (formerly) Keefe with dob and address at birth.  They  are obviously taken from the birth cert as GRO reg noted.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/sharing/20959487?h=e52973&utm_campaign=bandido-webparts&utm_source=post-share-modal&utm_medium=copy-url

---

Probate  on effects worth £452 16s 5d was granted to the Treasury Solicitor (I've not seen that before. At a guess he had no will and  no-one to act as executor) 

edited 6 minutes ago by Helen Ford

Gertrude died March quarter 1939 - and I didn't find any children registered. 

.

His mother is noted by hand as being Bridget Judy Keefe

So, would a "short name" for Bridget be Ann? Because the census returns clearly state Ann as the wife of Harry. Oy.  Headache time.  

---

She seems to change Christian name and place of birth.She  changed her age also  but thats not unusual

1871 Ann born Killarney
1881 Ann born Marylebone.(Frances born 1880 has mother: Keefe)

(maybe Bridget didn't want to acknowledge her Irish birth getting rid of both  place of birth and a 'typically' Irish name. But why choose Ann? She had a living sister by that name). There's nowt so queer as folk

---

OR -- maybe she was really ANN! 

It'd be interesting to chase down her sister and see if she, too, used a name other than the one registered at birth.  (It is not unusual (hush, Tom) for Irish Catholics (and others who follow the Church of Rome), in particular, to use in life a name they take at Conformation.  (I've seen less of this with Irish Protestants.)  (Saint) Ann/e is believed by many to be the mother of Mary, the mother of Jesus, and is probably as often chosen at Confirmation as most Saint names, so it makes sense to me.

It is  possible she didn't change her place of birth, but that the enumerator either put the same thing for everyone, or assumed it.

---

It could also have been a second name. I think that technically you can use a new name at confirmation in the C of E. I've never seen it done but my father in law used his second name of Andrew at ordination . Wife and parishioners used Andrew  but he was still Robert Andrew on official documents.

---

Well, Ann isn't anything close to Judy (and now I have to wonder where the Judy came from!).

---

My error: sorry had corrected it. The word is a contraction of formerly!

---

Well, that's a relief!  Just one name we don't have to worry about!

I do think, however, that, the two of us and Anonymous Woody, we have the correct linkages, and that the Harry of the original question was born in 1878, not 1880.  (What's a couple of years, after all?  Women do it all the time. )

---

Yes, 

An attempted summary.

The marriage of Henry who married Hannah states he was the son of Henry Loader. ( therefore this cannot be Charles Loader and Annie Allen.)

Harry Loader born in 1878, birth registered in Kensington. His mother was a Keefe. ( this from.GRO register. ) https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

In 1891,Harry is to be found with his mother Ann and a sister Frances 

In 1881 he is with his father, Henry, mother Ann  and several siblings: Augustus, Edmund, Rosa and Frances. All children had a mother surnamed Keefe in GRO index. Mother Ann is said to have been born in Marylebone. Father was a coach painter as on marriage cert.

Melanie found other children born to this couple who died as infants; (Henry before 1871, Henry 1872 and Annie 1874).

1871 census, records family but  with  Ann Loader as being born in Killarney.

1865 Henry/Harry Loader coach painter married  Bridget Keith  in Notting Hill

( This seemed very  odd but it appears that Bridget later started using the name Ann. Her surname was  Keefe not Keith)

1851, Bridget (Keefe/ Keith) age 9 is to be found with her father Cornelius and family  but the enumerator spelled the surname as Keif.( indexed Kief on ancestry)

We then looked at Augustus Loader  (b 1866). He was the  elder brother of Harry( b 1878). 

Augustus married twice. 

Jessie Buck

Gertrude Bonn.

He died in Willesdon in 1943 leaving an estate of about £500 but no known relatives. The government put an advert for relatives  in the paper . A newspaper index preserved the cutting with a note about his parents together with date and place of birth. It would appear this note used a copy of  his birth cert for these details. ( mother stated as Bridget Loader formerly 

---

Of interest is that the Mannerings family seem to be heavily based in Kent.  (I have speculated that Mannerings / Mannering may be a phonetical rendering of Mainwaring, but that is tangential to this research.)

Hannah Maria's father was William, and his mother appears to have been someone Tolhurst.  I have had no success finding a marriage, however.

Answer 1

Harry was born Henry Loader in 1879, Kensington 1a/163 q December 1879. Mother's maiden name Allan.

This is Henry/Harry in 1891:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:3TN3-1T2

Apparently he deserted the Army in 1899 before marrying Hannah Maria Mannerings in 1902 Hollingbourne, Kent.

In addition to the son you have listed there was a daughter

Joyce Annie Lucetta Loader born 1809, Hollingborne, Kent

A son also in 1922, George T M Loader, Malling Kent

Comments

Henry who married Hannah names father as Harry, not Charles.  (Charles Loader was married to Ann Allen.)

---

Thanks 'Anonymous'. This was the most probable positive response received. I will need to think about some of the others, as they just confuse me at the moment.

If Harry/Henry was a deserter then the name change prior to marrying Hannah Maria Mannaring(s) may have been deliberate.

I know Joyce Annie Lucetta was William Henry's sister and there was a third sibling I had not found out the details on, so thanks for George TM.

From your link it appears that Charles and Annie (Allan) were the parents of Henry/Harry and grandparents of William Henry.

I will follow that trail and see where it leads.

---

Charles Loader and Annie Allen are not in your direct line, although they may be collaterally related..

Answer 2

Have you tried familysearch.org, it’s a free site?

Comments

Started trying Ancestry (Trial), FindMyPast, DeceasedOnline and WikiTree, as well as MyHeritage, to try to cross validate entries and links.

Answer 3

Hi! The confusion with Harry is because Henry Loader 1843 married to Bridget Keefe and Charles Loader 1846 married to Ann Allen were brothers! So the two Harrys are first cousins who were born within a couple of years of each other. My ancestor was their brother Frederick 1849. Luckily, his son born in 1879 was called William Henry!