Need help identifying mystery source for Thomas Southworth b 1616 Holland d 1669 Salem, MA

+3 votes
161 views

I'm trying to identify the source for a reference that came with a gedcom import but seems to have been lost.  I've tried looking in the change history, and related profiles.  Also looked at the page #'s in Torrey's sources for clues, but no luck:

Source: #S20 Page: p 355 & 356.

Unfortunately, the information provided in the source doesn't seem to be duplicated in other sources referenced. Since its about his family origins so quite important.  Oddly, in the Great Migration sketch, Anderson names Thomas's parents but doesn't provide a reference.  

If I can't find this source, any source that I can use that supports the information about his parents and the comment: "The Thomas Southworth who came to Plymouth should not be confused with his uncle, Thomas Southworth, who stayed behind in Leiden."  would be great.

(Tagging mayflower because there seems to be some source overlap with his daughter Elizabeth marrying Joseph Howland, Mayflower descendant).

WikiTree profile: Thomas Southworth
in Genealogy Help by M Cole G2G6 Mach 3 (39.6k points)
edited by M Cole

3 Answers

+7 votes
I can't help with that source, but the Bradford Silver Book (2004) has the following mention for Thomas:'

"He [Gov. William Bradford] m. (2) Plymouth 14 Aug. 1623 ALICE (CARPENTER) SOUTHWORTH, b. prob. Wrington, Somerset, England say 1595; d. Plymouth 26 or 27 March 1670; daughter of Alexander Carpenter.  She m. (1) Leyden, Holland 28 May 1613 EDWARD SOUTHWORTH with whom she had sons Constant and Thomas."   Page 1
by Sandra DeTora G2G6 Mach 8 (80.6k points)
On the next page, in Alice's will she made a bequest to "grandchild Elizabeth Howland, daughter of son Thomas Southworth deceased, for the benefit of her son James Howland."

That connects four generations.

Bradford Silver (2004), Page 2
Thanks, Sandra.  That's great.

NEHGR, Vol. 7:179, bottom of page gives a short version of her will. There is a full transcription here in The Mayflower Descendant, Vol. 3:144-149

+6 votes

I think this is the change - the merge with -381

The 381 profile came from a gedcom import -> Mills-Martin Families.ged 

The owner doesn't appear to be active so asking them might be a dead end.Maybe you could e-mail the admin team to look in the gedcom file?

Also, please review the Alleged Royal Ancestry of Edward Southworth (and his brother Thomas) G2G and the Alleged Royal Ancestry of Edward Southworth free space page. 

by Kirk Hess G2G6 Mach 6 (64.2k points)
Thanks, I've seen the free space page, and Thomas's father's profile has it pretty well covered, but it looks like some of the other attached profiles reflect the old info. I'll try to update them so they're consistent.
+4 votes

Going back to the original GEDCOM, it says:

  • 0 @S20@ SOUR 
  • 1 TYPE Book 
  • 1 TITL Plymouth Colony: Its History & People, 1620-1691 
  • 1 AUTH by Eugene Aubrey Stratton 
  • 1 PUBL Ancestry Publishing 
  • 1 PLAC Salt Lake City, Utah 
  • 1 DATE 1986

I don't know if that is the right source because something went wrong in the conversion to GEDCOM or in the import into WikiTree. If it had worked correctly, this source would have been shown in the profile.

by Rick Pierpont G2G6 Pilot (115k points)
Thanks, Rick.  How did you find that info??

It certainly looks like a good possibility. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be available online.  I think its supposed to be in the Ancestry.com collection.  It comes up in google, but pages aren't accessible, and it doesn't show up in a Catalog search. Maybe they've removed it.

I don't see it on Ancestry.com. Amazon sells it. Google has it online for searching and snippet view only: https://books.google.com/books?id=7TH062rPP2MC

GEDCOM files are kept on WikiTree forever (I think), so you can always get the information back. If you don't have access to it, just ask here on G2G and someone will get it for you.

Good to know.  I'm 99% sure that's the correct reference.  I found a citation on Wikipedia for George Soule, same page, same publication.  Assuming its arranged alphabetically, I'd expect Southworth to be next.

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