Confirmation re Cartledge-33; Quaker, Early Penn. Settler

+4 votes
92 views
The source citation display is a mess on this profile.  It is not locked so if you can tell me how to fix it, I would really appreciate it.

I am attempting to untangle the various Edmund Cartledge's and verify info on his spouse(s) and children.  The Edmund I'm trying to gain certainty on was b. 1639 in Derbyshire, England and d. 1703 in Darby, Delaware, Pennsylvania.  He and family emigrated to Pennsylvania in 1682.  

Am questioning whether children of Edmund (Edmund, John, and Mary) are offspring of marriage of Edmund Cartledge to Mary Need on November 9, 1682 in Chesterfield, England.  Edmund would have been 43 at the time of this marriage. if this is the Edmund b. 1639; or is this actually his son Edmund (who also married Ann Richardson)?

Edmund and Mary are mentioned in the Darby Meeting Minutes of February  8, 1682 - unlikely if they married in England in November of that year.

Insights anyone?
WikiTree profile: Edmund Cartledge
in Genealogy Help by Susan Bulla G2G2 (2.4k points)
retagged by Susan Bulla
Small tip: if you put the profile name 'Cartledge-33' in the small box when you edit your question, this question will be linked to the profile and the discussion can be followed from it.
I have added the link to the profile.

3 Answers

+3 votes
The mention in Darby Meeting Minutes of February 8, 1682 - that is actually 8th of the 12th month 1682, which under the conventions in use back then corresponds to 8 February 1683 of our calendar (since under their convention, i.e. Old Style Calendar, the new year began on 25 March). Thus it is not entirely impossible for Edmund and Mary to have been in England in November 1682 and in Pennsylvania in February 1683 - though that would have involved a winter crossing of the Atlantic, which I believe would have been unusual.
by Anonymous Geschwind G2G6 Mach 8 (81.9k points)
Thank you for this information.  I have found a Quaker calendar converter of sorts at the Swathmore College Library site.
+2 votes

Regarding your question on better source display:

There is one source that has been used multiple times. Now, with the full inline citation being repeated, it shows up multiple times, which is not really nice to read through. It also suggests there are multiple sources, while you actually use one for a lot of information.

You can re-use this source by giving it a name and then using that named reference on other locations.

That sounds a bit technical, I know.

So what you can do is adding name="GoodSource" to the <ref> tag. So it would become this: <ref name="GoodSource">

Then you can use <ref name="GoodSource"/> instead of the full source on other locations. Note the / in there, and for sure there are more intelligent names to use. I have changed one of the references so you can see the result.

by Michel Vorenhout G2G6 Pilot (216k points)

As long as what comes after ref name= is just one word (no spaces), you don't actually need the quote marks around it. So, in this case it can be <ref name=GoodSource/>

... but will potentially break XHTML, so I would not advice to use it if you don't want to encounter problems if Wikitree ever does an upgrade.

See "Unquoted Attribute Value Syntax" here: https://dev.w3.org/html5/html-author/Overview.src.html

Thank you, Michel - I'll see if I can understand what you've done!
0 votes

It appears that there are some date issues to resolve in connecting the family of Notts to the family in Pennsylvania. The marriage record (not the intention) is dated in transcription 28 of 11th month 1682 which gives us 28 January 1683.  Yet, there appear to be records of Edmund in the colony dated 13 5th (July) 1682. (Two men of the same name?) The profile cites another record date 8 Feb 1682 which even if meant to be February 1683 presents further issue with the date of the wedding document (and the intention). Has someone checked dates for all of the original documents as well as checked Richardson's sources and citations? Can the Magna Carta project please place the primary source citations on the profile of Mary (Need) Cartledge to aid in resolving this possible conflict?

Susan, please edit your question to include the tag Magna Carta.  Thanks.

by T Stanton G2G6 Pilot (194k points)
edited by T Stanton
Thank you!  Yes, there are multiple Edmund Cartledge's in this line.  Per Cartledge-33 christening record (2/14/1640) his father was named Edmund.  Edmund-33 also had a son, Edmund, Cartledge-32 per Darby (PA) Meeting minutes in 1689.  That name was repeated throughout multiple generations!
I have amended Mary Need's profile, with such sourcing as Richardson gives, and with links to English Quaker records, and also slightly edited the bio of Edmund Cartledge. Richardson actually says very very little, and all he says is on Mary's profile.

Given the marriage date of Edmund and Mary in Nottingham, England (28 Jan 1683), it would seem fairly clear that they cannot have been in America on 8 February 1683, so it would appear that either any American record of that date is wrong, or the year has been misread, or the record is referring to a different Edmund.

If anyone can track down copies or abstracts of the 1701 will of Mary's father or the 1703 will of her husband, that may cast light on the family. Richardson names Mary Need's children as John, Edmund and Mary but gives no information about them beyond that the family went at an unstated date to Pennsylvania.

I will leave those more expert than I am in American sources to take things further forward.
Susan, I found a summary of a will abstract that names Edmund's brother-in-law as Joseph Need. Still finding curious date issues in records. Did his father immigrate? Anything indicating he perhaps had a first cousin named Edmund who also immigrated? I did find that he was a member of the Breath House Monthly Meeting in Derbyshire.

Also, in all of these period records I find the surname spelt Cartlidge. Since WikiTree uses the spelling of the period, wondering if we need to change LNAB to Cartlidge and use the later spelling Cartledge as an alternate.
Thank you!  As far as I know, Cartledge-33’s father (also Edmund Cartledge) did not emigrate but I don’t have proof of death for him, either. Only info I have is that this Edmund married Mary Need in England and they were noted in the Monthly Meeting notes of Darby, Pennsylvania 1682/1683. Their three children were apparently all born on this side of the pond.

I don’t have an opinion re Cartlidge/Cartledge. The name has been spelt many different ways throughout the years since their arrival in PA.

Just looked at his baptism record, which has what looks more like Cartledge than Cartlidge. On Familysearch here. The letter i is dotted elsewhere on this parish register page and there is no dot here, and the shape of the letter is not dissimilar to the way e is written in other words on the page. So I think we should keep to Cartledge as LNAB but I am adding Cartlidge as an alternate, to accord with Quaker records.

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