Please can someone help sort out this pre-1700 profile?

+4 votes
Please can someone who is experienced, help untangle what looks suspiciously like a wrongly merged pre-1700 profile?

I think there may be two (or more) people mixed in this profile.
One would be :-
* Thomas Joyner married to Elizabeth Mann and
The other may be:-
* William Joyner married to Henrietta

* Theophilus Joyner appears to be listed here because he is a witness to both wills or is he another name of the person in the profile?

I really am having a little difficulty understanding what is going on in this profile. Can someone explain it me because truly I am finding it confusing? I don't have access to Ancestry wills so I can't see the original sources.

Here is what I'm thinking from reading this profile...

It looks as though the details of family named below came from the will of Thomas Joyner (who died 1708)...

:THOMAS JOYNER ( -1708), m. Elizabeth (Mann?)

:1. John

:2. Martha, m. Thomas Turner

:3. Elizabeth, m. William Kinchen

:4. Deborah

:5. James

:6. Christian

:7. Benjamin, m. Elizabeth Pitman

:8. Nehemiah, m. Elizabeth ?

:9. Thomas ( -1740), m. Patience Matthews

It looks as though the details of the other family below came from the will of William Joyner - if so they would be William's wife and children. None of them match up with the family of Thomas above. two wills of the same man couldn't have completely different people named?

:Leg. son Joseph;

:son Theophilus;

:son John;

:son Henry;

:son Lazarus;

:daughter Sarah Dawson;

:daughter Mary Garland;

:daughter Mary;

:daughter Prudencee;

:wife Henrietta. Exs. wife and son John Joyner. D. January 15, 1724/25. R. February 25, 1739.

And then there is this Theophilus Joyner (1660, Isle of Wight, Virginia-1739, Isle of Wight, Virginia) that heads the biography halfway down. Who is he? it looks like he was born when Thomas was about 15 yrs old. (I've seen here and elsewhere that the Thomas Joyner of this profile who died in 1708 was born about 1653/1655.)

thanks Veni
WikiTree profile: Thomas Joyner
in The Tree House by Veni Joyner G2G6 Mach 2 (22.6k points)
retagged by Darlene Athey-Hill
edited to add more information
I added tags for Virginia and Southern Colonies to try and bring your post to the attention of more people.

3 Answers

+4 votes
Best answer
Hi Veni,

I just happened across this profile (and thus your G2G post) when looking at another one today.  I think Thomas and his brother Theophilus perhaps had a bad merge done.  But I located another profile for Theophilus and moved the data from Thomas' profile to his.  I also detached Henrietta from Thomas and switched a couple of the sons that belonged to Theophilus from Thomas to him.

I also located a couple of sources and added a will synopsis for Thomas.

There may be more changes that need to be made.  Perhaps someone related to the family can review and work on it (I'm not in any way related, just doing an act of genealogical kindness . . .).
by Darlene Athey-Hill G2G6 Pilot (467k points)
selected by Veni Joyner
You have done superb work with adding sources to the profile.

Thank you!
+5 votes
Unfortunately, merges cannot be 'undone'.  The only thing that can be done is to create a new profile for one of the profiles.  I would also recommend including Research Notes on both profiles, stating that it is not a duplicate of the other profile with the wikitree ID and also indicating that a merge was previously done incorrectly, in case someone is directed to the merged profile.  

The information from the will of both does have different wives and children, so they would appear to be different, if the wills are of the same named person.  Which of them, if known, is the child of those parents? Unfortunately, that profile is lacking in primary sources to determine parents, marriage and children, other than the will excerpts. There is a lot of 'family tree' type information.
by Linda Peterson G2G6 Pilot (623k points)
Great advice Linda. But I think it also needs the help of someone experienced in pre-1700 profiles in that part of the America - hence my request.
+2 votes

I am adding the Southern Colonies Project as co-manager of the Thomas Joyner lll profile.  This is in order to promote collaboration and enable monitoring of this profile which appears to have been the subject of a erroneous merge.  We will, as time allows, review this profile for possible errors and assist in sorting out, correcting and improving this and any related profiles that may have been merged away in error.  If you would like to help in this process or if you have knowledge of this line and would be willing to assist in improving and correcting this profile please contact one of the leaders of the Southern Colonies Project or the Profile Managers of this profile.

Thanks, David Douglass, Project Leader, SoCol Project

by David Douglass G2G6 Pilot (117k points)
Thank you David for taking an interest in this profile.

This particular line of Thomas Joyner I,II,III profiles represent the ancestry of many of those surnamed Joyner/Joiner in the US especially those white pioneers in the Southern Colonies.  The first one migrated from Bere Regis, Dorset, England, near where, 100 years later, my Joyner ancestry hits a road block. However Y dna testing hasn't yet found any connection.

While I am leader of the Joyner/Joiner surname project, I have very limited knowledge of the US pioneer period sources, so I have an interest in seeking the collaboration of others such as yourself for the improvement of these significant Joyner profiles.  

One question, How is it that you are able to add yourself as the profile manager when it wasn't an orphan profile?

Veni, I can answer that.  David is a leader.  As such, he has 'powers' that the general membership doesn't have -- one of which is the ability to add himself (or a project) as a profile manager.

Project leaders have the ability (supported by WikiTree policy) to adopt (add themselves as a project manager) profiles for the purpose of project management activities.  

This allows the addition of Project Management and in certain cases permitted by WikiTree policy, project protection.

Oops, I see now that Darlene beat me to the draw.  Thanks Darlene for answering her question.

Related questions

+3 votes
2 answers
156 views asked Jul 7, 2019 in The Tree House by Veni Joyner G2G6 Mach 2 (22.6k points)
+1 vote
2 answers
608 views asked Sep 24, 2013 in Genealogy Help by Living Franceta G2G Crew (470 points)
+4 votes
1 answer
+3 votes
0 answers
94 views asked Jun 27, 2020 in The Tree House by Veni Joyner G2G6 Mach 2 (22.6k points)
+4 votes
4 answers
177 views asked Dec 22, 2015 in Genealogy Help by Paul Joiner G2G Crew (350 points)
+5 votes
0 answers
+7 votes
3 answers
68 views asked Oct 19 in The Tree House by Lee Joyner G2G Crew (340 points)
+3 votes
1 answer
56 views asked Apr 28, 2020 in Appreciation by T Sanders G2G Crew (470 points)

WikiTree  ~  About  ~  Help Help  ~  Search Person Search  ~  Surname:

disclaimer - terms - copyright