Mary Talbot, Northumberland, England - can you help me untangle this profile? [closed]

Question

I'm not sure if Mary Talbot in the 1881 Census with her parents is the same Mary Talbot who is a servant to the Patterson household in the 1891 Census.

See the research notes in the profile: Is Mary the woman who married John Patterson in 1891 in Tynemouth, Northumberland (registered last quarter of 1891)? If yes, that would either have Mary appearing twice in the 1891 census, or else the Patterson household had another Mary Talbot living with them?

What do others think? Which sources belong to Mary? Is it possible that all the sources belong here?

Comments

How sure are you that her name was Mary Ellen?

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The only reason I think her name was Mary Ellen is because it was transcribe Mary Ellen Talbot on the 1881 census... so not very!!!

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Ok -- birth was registered as Mary Eleanor - so Mary Ellen would likely be a contraction of that.

There is only one birth registered in Northumberland of Mary E Talbot (I forgot to put start and end dates, so it looked for all) - and she has the right mother's maiden surname :

TALBOT, MARY  ELEANOR	MOSS
GRO Reference: 1872  S Quarter in TYNEMOUTH  Volume 10B  Page 156

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Thanks Melanie, this is promising. Now I'm wondering if the 1891 Census with John and Mary together maybe is a different John and Mary Patterson? Year of birth for John in that census is ~1865.

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I'm thinking that the Mary married to the Patterson in the 1891 census may not be the Mary Ellen Talbot whose marriage was registered in the DECEMBER Quarter, because the census was done on or around the 5th April 1891.

So the Mary E Talbot (servant) in the Patterson household would be the correct one.

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HAH!  Seems we cross posted (because I left my reply sitting while I looked up births for James Patterson 0 years old 1891).

Answer 1

So could Mary have been recorded on the 1891 census twice? I've seen people who appear in two different locations, but mostly children where there must have been some indecision about whether they would be at home that night or staying with grandma, for example. 

In this case, perhaps it would be best to look into whether there was another couple called John and Mary Patterson in the same area. Can you find the birth registration (and mother's maiden name on gro.gov.uk) for their son James? 

Obviously the census took place in spring and your couple didn't marry until later the same year. Have you seen the parish record or marriage certificate for Mary Ellen and John Patterson?

The transcription of the 1891 census is a bit patchy on Family Search; in case you haven't seen the images, the birthplace for the Mary who's married to John with son James was given as Newcastle. Mary the servant was said to be born in Willington.

Comments

Working my way through the births where James would still be 0 years old in April 1891 :

PATTERSON, JAMES	-
GRO Reference: 1890  J Quarter in MORPETH  Volume 10B  Page 392

PATTERSON, JAMES	-
GRO Reference: 1890  S Quarter in MORPETH  Volume 10B  Page 400

PATTERSON, JAMES  ARCHBOLD	ARCHBOLD
GRO Reference: 1891  S Quarter in MORPETH  Volume 10B  Page 394

PATTERSON, JAMES	SCOTT
GRO Reference: 1890  D Quarter in NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE  Volume 10B  Page 22

PATTERSON, JAMES	MCDONALD
GRO Reference: 1891  M Quarter in TYNEMOUTH  Volume 10B  Page 204

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So I would say definitely a different Mary.

PS - there was a Mary McDonald married in the September Qtr 1890, Tynemouth - same page as a John Patterson, so likely the parents of the M Qtr James, above.

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Thanks so much Melanie and Katie for helping me to puzzle this out! Feeling much more confident now to progress the profile!

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You're welcome!

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No worries!