Transcriptions of That Dratted German Handwriting needed

+2 votes

On the "Example Profile Plans" G2G post from a few weeks ago, I noticed a typo in Mrs. Liszt's married name, which led to digging up some Matricula-Online links for her, and then for her mother, but they're so all over the place that I'm feeling in desperate need of deciphering more than the basic names and dates of the entries (which is as far as I can get on my own).

Anna Liszt's birth in Krems an der Donau: (This one is definitely the right one, even without the outline in red added by some enthusiastic researcher of famous people.)

Anna's mother's death, also in Krems an der Donau, so likely correct:

Supposedly the marriage of Anna's parents, in Kirchberg am Wagram (based on a "source citation" consisting of the placename and type of register):

And supposedly the birth of Anna's mother, in Bavaria (based on the date and place that were entered on her profile, without any further information in the bio/sources area):

Is there anything in any of these entries to indicate that these represent anything more than a coincidence of names? Was Mrs. Lager really born in Bavaria and married in Kirchberg am Wagram, 15 miles east of her place of residence?

WikiTree profile: Franziska Lager
in Genealogy Help by J Palotay G2G6 Mach 7 (71.2k points)

1 Answer

+5 votes
Best answer
First one: [name] Maria Anna Lagerin [the -in is a feminine suffix for the family name], [father] Herr Mathias Lager Bürger allhier [i.e., citizen here], [mother] Franziska Romana uxor gebohrene [i.e., nee] Schuhmannin von Etting im Reich [thus, she was born in a place called Etting in the "Reich", presumably the Holy Roman Empire], [godmother] Frau Magdalena Kochin, [godmother's status] Bürgl. Maurermeisterin allhier [i.e., she is a burgher and a master bricklayer here], [person performing baptism] B. Candidadus Nendwicks [??] Coop:
by Living Geschwind G2G6 Mach 8 (83.9k points)
selected by Lothar Wolf
Second one: Frau Franziska Laager Ehegattin des Herrn Mathias Laager gewest Bürgerl. Bäckermeister allhier derzeit Wittwe unter dem Wittwengeleuth in Gottes Acker

Translation: Mrs. Franziska Laager, wife of Mr. Mathias Laager, former burgher and master baker here, at present widow, [buried] with widow's bell-tolling in God's field [i.e., church cemetery]
Third one is in Latin: [the couple] D: Mathias Lager civis viduus, cum honesta virgine Francisca filia D. Andres Schumann horologarij in Suevia [the witnesses] D. Georgius Köchl Senator: D. Ignatius Frifatter [?] Senator et Camerarius ambo in Kremmß [the officiant] Mathias Krikl [?] Cooperator in Kremß

Translation: [couple] Mr. Mathias Lager, burgher and widower, with honest virgin Francisca, daughter of Mr. Andreas Schumann, clockmaker in Swabia [witnesses] Mr. Georg Köchl, city councilor, and Mr. Ignatius Frifatter, city councilor and treasurer, both of Krems [officiant] Mathias Krikl, associate priest in Krems.

Note incidentally the place notation in the left margin - I can't make out the second word, but it appears this marriage may have actually taken place in Krems.
Note the fourth entry is from Oetting in the diocese of Augsburg - this agrees with the "Etting" noted in Anna's baptismal record, and the diocese of Augsburg is what is commonly called the Swabian portion of Bavaria, so this also agrees with Franziska's marriage record.

This one (entry 26) is again in Latin, somewhat abbreviated: Baptizata S. M. Francisca Margretha, Andreae Schueman min: et . . . [can't make out three-letter abbreviated name] Maria francisca uxor legit filia [names of godparents follow].

So this is the birth of Francisca Margretha, daughter of Andreas Schumann the clockmaker - fully agrees with data in marriage record.

So yes, I would say these four records are all actually quite consistent and represent the same person, the mother of Anna Lager.
Wow, thanks! Looking at just the geography, it all seemed so unlikely. (I wish this handwriting would stop being so utterly unreadable to me. Even once I know what it's supposed to say, I can't always see it. I think part of my problem is the way they flip-flop between alphabets; my brain Just Does Not Work That Way.)

Now for tracking down the father's records... I can't find his death in Krems, maybe I should look in Kirchberg?

Regarding the notation at the left: could it be ex Kremß dimissa, i.e. with permission from Krems?

ex Kremß dimissa - yes, that makes perfect sense.

Too bad the record doesn't tell us why the groom from Krems, the two witnesses from Krems, and the officiant from Krems all felt the necessity to have this wedding actually take place in Kirchberg.

Found Matthias's death, in December (I think: rather than the September that it says currently on his profile ( I found a daughter's death in 1793 with the same house-number as the mom's death in 1797, so instead of trying to decipher anything, I just looked at the house numbers. :-)

Yup, that's him (says he was a burgher and master baker, just as in his widow's burial). Gives his age as 82, so the birthdate in the profile looks reasonably good.
It's amazing what people feel entitled to do when there are famous people on the line -- Franz Liszt's maternal grandfather's birth record says so, right there in the register:
Ha - I guess the priest of that parish got enough letters of inquiry he decided to "bookmark" that passage for easier retrieval!

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