The Six (!) wives of John Warren 1525-1576?

Question

As a "source" for John Warren of Suffolk, England we seem to get the unsourced William Cutter. I've not been able to determine who Cutter used as his source. Depending on which profile among that of John and his present six wives is viewed, we get discussion of three wives or perhaps five purported to be documented by various marriage and other indexes. Over at Ancestry his marriages may be seen to have occurred in several English counties as well as the US State of Ohio.

Could some of our England colleagues assist in finding at least one or two primary source records to assist in separating fact from what may be a lot of fiction?  Thanks.

Comments

Is England project comfortable with going ahead with the two wife detachments suggested on the profile in 2020? Those would be Rose Unknown and Christine Hinsman.

Answer 1

Here is a marriage to Margery Firmety, at Great Horkesley, Essex (about 2 miles from Nayland). The parish register image is available (via subscription) from Essex Archives Online. The entry is:

John Warren & Margery Firmety marryed 30 Januar [1568/9]

Comments

I'm wondering if we have multiple John Warrens. I've not got to it yet but was going to look for burial records for any of the women. But, wondering what may be online for this period.

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This pedigree published in The New England Historical and Genealogical Register (1910) vol. 64 pp. 346-355 is based on analysis of relevant wills and parish register entries, transcribed on the previous pages of the article. It seems very thorough!

Edit: Added full citation for pedigree

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Thanks! (I think.)

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Yes, the NEHGR appears very thorough and certainly suggests we are only looking at three wives absent some other primary source to connect one of the other wives.

It appears to me the two Unknown Unknowns would be the same person as NEHGR has them, not two different wives (which may be read unsourced at Find-a-Grave). It appears he did have two sons (both lived) named John. They are differentiated and the second is referred to (in the will) as the "myddle" which I interpret as the middle of the three sons by the first wife. If the two Johns had different mothers, there would be no explanation (that I can think of) for one being called "myddle."

Star for the NEHGR link -- somehow didn't come on my radar so major thanks for finding it.

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Hi I am new here, having been working on my ancestry website. John  warren 1525-1576 is my 12th ggf. And I have read that the 2 johns were from unknown unknown which is why they were differentiated by ‘elder’ and ‘middle’..a suggestion is that the elder was ‘touch and go’ /expected to die and so they named the middle…not so sure. Adding the Warrens is taking time..was glad to see many of them on here already. I’ve got 5 wives on my ancestry site.. there were more in the hints, but close variations/didn’t seem right, so I didn’t add them. Things might open up a bit once I add some further warrens… my connection is via all paternal warrens, so straight up. Hate to say it but things haven’t changed, re the warren’s wives !

Answer 2

"England Marriages, 1538–1973 ", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NLMP-5TG: 13 March 2020), John Waren, 1559.  This is a marriage to Christian Hinsam that took place at Stoke by Nayland, Suffolk, England on 10 Dec 1559

Comments

Just a note for those following, there's nothing in the record to suggest the John Waren is subject of the profile. We have several men of the same name in neighboring parishes.

The burials register for Nayland appears to contain burials for Anne (wife of John Warin of Corlie) 25 Nov 1567 (currently seen as Agnes is WikiTree); and last wife Margaret given as "wife of John Warrin at Carlie, 19 Apr 1576."

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Yes I believe you are correct. Agnes appears to be still alive at the time of John writing his Will, she is referred to as my wife, not my wife deceased.

https://archive.org/details/newenglandhistor1910wate/page/348/mode/1up?view=theater

Ann

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Thank you, Ann, that clarification is a great help. Does it then follow that the later 'wife' Margaret is the wife of another of the same name (we have several in the immediate area)?

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But, then who are John and Agnes Coole (Cole in another place) who are the children of his (which?) wife by a prior marriage? It looks like presently Margaret was given an Unknown Cole first husband to account for those children (I have not yet looked at that in detail).

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Very likely,

I haven’t looked at them much today will do so in a bit, unfortunately Warren is not uncommon. Also John I think had two sons called John, possibly 3!

I’ll fire uo the laptop in a minute.

Ann

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Well I think there are some tangles there. Those wills in the book are helpful but there are a few John Warren's knocking around which I think has caused problems.

Ann

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Hi,

I was having a browse of Genealogical  Gleanings and ha ve found some interesting things relating to Warrens and possibly the associated Coles.

This refers to a Samuel Warren of  Nayland. Worth searching these ppublications  I found some Coles with mention of Warrens as well

Sorry iin advance for the long URL!

https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/48512/images/GleaningsEnglandII-002763-1158?usePUB=true&_phsrc=tBV858&pId=374803&backlabel=Return&queryId=221cfa3233f07bacc5fc1418850ec0f4&rcstate=GleaningsEnglandII-002763-1158%3A1123%2C1902%2C1264%2C1930%3B1273%2C2170%2C1415%2C2196%3B784%2C228%2C916%2C262%3B1019%2C1332%2C1158%2C1365%3B825%2C1644%2C958%2C1677%3B826%2C1707%2C966%2C1738%3B847%2C1862%2C974%2C1896%3B732%2C1901%2C868%2C1930

Ann

Answer 3

Suffolk Marriage Transcriptions on Find My Past have a marriage for John Warren and Agnes Howlet at Nayland on 5 Sep 1563. Here is a link for anyone who has a subscription. https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBPRS%2FM%2F201024130%2F1