Is Robert Hubbard really the son of Sir Henry Hobart? Where is the supporting evidence?

Question

Robert Hubbard (Hubbard-104) is connected as a son of Sir Henry Hobart (Hobart-87), but this seems to have been accepted (on all online trees) with no evidence to support it. Where is the evidence?

In the profile biography for his alleged father Sir Henry Hobart (Hobart-87) is the following : ' ... Sir Henry married Dorothy Bell, the daughter of Sir Robert Bell, in Blickling, Norfolk in 1616. (sic) Together they had Twelve sons, which includes Sir Robert Hubbard, and four daughters. Sir Henry helped fund the passage, with The Hobarts privately owned ship, and money given to his son Robert Hubbard to buy, and invest in land in Colonial America....'

Sir Robert Hubbard? When was Robert Hobart knighted? 

Twelve sons? Where does this come from? (Someone has helpfully created another Edward & another Robert for Sir Henry Hobart but to bring the number to 12, but these two sons never existed.)

The Hobart 's privately owned ship? Where is the evidence of the Hobart family ship? (It certainly is not in the will of Sir Henry Hobart - Robert, along with the other younger sons, receives £40. And I can find no other document to support the idea of a ship.) Sir Henry does not mention any overseas property, land etc in his will.  Incidentally, the will of Sir Henry (written 20th July 1625) is the last known mention of Robert Hobart the son of Sir Henry, and he is shown in family pedigrees as 'died s.p.'

According to the biography of Robert Hubbard, the immigrant, he seemingly did not leave England until the early 1640's; and even then he made trips back and forth after this time and apparently 'used his influential contacts' to get on in Virginia; but this doesn't seem to have been remembered by his own family. 

 Robert Hubbard's sons were born in England ( 'records show' this, but none are shown as far as I'm aware.) and yet the Hobart family think Robert died without issue. 

In the time between 1625 (the last mention of Robert Hobart) and c.1644 (when Robert Hubbard turns up in Virginia) Robert's brothers Henry, Miles, and James, and his mother, all die and leave wills, but he is not remembered by any of them. (Brother Henry mentions his brothers John, Miles, Nathaniel, and Captain James. Dorothy Hobart mentions her sons John, James, and Nathaniel (and the brother's wives etc). (All available at the National Archives - wills are still free to download at the moment so take a look.)

There may be a possibility Robert is mentioned by his brother Edward who died in the 1620's, but I haven't been able to ascertain if he wrote one yet; (they went through Cambridge together and entered Lincolns Inn together, so I imagine they may have been close.) 

Sir John in his will of 1645 mentions his brother Nathaniel whom he leaves a £40 annuity to and £500 to Nathaniel's children when Nathaniel dies. (Nathaniel seems to be the last remaining brother.) 

Robert Hubbard does not die until 1663.

 Robert Hubbard marries Margaret Kevell in Cambridge 25th July 1625, whereas Robert Hobart was admitted to Lincolns Inn on 17th January 1625 with his brother Edward. (I am not aware how the marriage is confirmed as the correct Robert Hubbard?)

There doesn't seem to be any mention of the immigrant Robert Hubbard being the son of Sir Henry Hobart until the 20th century, and the immigrant does not seem to have claimed to be such a person, or to have used the Hobart arms etc. 

Has Robert Hubbard been attached to Sir Henry Hobart simply because of Sir Henry's involvement with the Virginia company?  He was also involved with the Northwest Passage company and The East India Company. 

Where is the evidence for Robert Hubbard and Robert Hobart being one and the same? There doesn't seem to be anything that suggests this.

Comments

Neither of the citations for the baptism currently on the profiles gives the parentage. The first lists his name with a date, no parents. The second is actually a marriage citation rather than a baptism.

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L Felix, great questions! Could you please cite the various sources you reference? This will strengthen the case.

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This entry from the parish register, rather than the bishop's transcript which the link on the profile at the moment refers, does  mention the father, albeit very hard to read.

London Metropolitan Archives; London, England; Reference Number: P79/JN1/021 St John Hackney, composite register 1590-1653  https://www.ancestry.co.uk/sharing/21411452?h=27a0f0

The editor of the visitation of Norfolk  cites this  date and place  as his baptism. This is all the editor finds to write about him, in contrast to other brothers and sisters. The twelve sons and four daughters are on line F pages 76 and  77 of the Re brother Edward, he suggests that he  may have been 'slain in the low countries' in 1637 (p 76).No will is mentioned so probably died intestate.

https://archive.org/details/visitationnorfo01dashgoog/page/n82/mode/1up  ( the book is very hard to read standing on my head so haven't counted children ) It's on Hathi, possibly the right way up but I can't access it from England; maybe those in the US can. The Houses of Parliament entry for father cites this vist for the number of sons and daughters  https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/hobart-sir-henry-1554-1625

see also https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/hobart-sir-john-ii-1593-1647

Abstracts of several of the  wills  mentioned are on pages 139-143 of the visitation.(more standing on head) https://archive.org/details/visitationnorfo01dashgoog/page/n162/mode/1up

 Brother Nathaniell died in 1674, he was an MP, I've done a bit of research (basically chasing up the references in his history of parliament entry) and created a bio. 

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Thanks, Helen. I was able to turn my laptop on its side to read the hathitrust version of the visitation (?). I can't tell who these children are supposed to be children OF; the page for Henry refers to "v." but there is on such "v." on page 76.

The Robert listed on page 76 says "living in 1625."  There is no reference to Virginia. 

On the bio for Sir Henry, there are no references to ships or Virginia.

So I'm not seeing how the Virginia Robert is confirmed to son of the Sir Henry. 

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The index to the Visitation indicates there are many variations to the name Hobart, presumably taken from original records, Hubbard being only one variation.

The indication in the biography of Robert Hubbard that his name was changed from Hobart to Hubbard only when he moved to America, would seem to be an over-simplification

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The further information on the Visitation of 1563 added by Dashwood seems to be taken from wills and parish registers, and doesn't help with Robert after the will of Sir Henry. The Middlesex pedigrees by Richard Mundy used later Visitations (1660s.), I think...

https://archive.org/details/middlesexpedigre651914/page/144

Robert and Edward being admitted to Lincoln's Inn:

https://archive.org/details/VOL114201799/page/n201

Alumni Cantabrigienses (search for the Hobarts includes Sir Henry & Edward & Robert (amongst others.)

http://venn.lib.cam.ac.uk/Documents/acad/2018/search-2018.html

Will of Sir Henry

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D888920

(It's 5 pages long - start on page 3 (where the will starts again) not page 1. There is a problem with the copy.) I can give you links to all wills mentioned, but not sure you'd really want me to. 

As mentioned,  the wills help to kind of count down the brothers, and Robert seems to be counted out quite early (as are Edward & Thomas.) 

(As for my date of death for the brother Edward, there is an entry in the holdings of the Lothian (Blickling) Collection that pertains to Sir John Hobart 2nd Bart, regarding 'Account of goods of Edward Hobart who died beyond the seas 1626-7'

 www.archives.norfolk.gov.uk/-/media/archives/archives-pdfs/miscellaneous/lothian-blickling-collection.pdf     

I hadn't noted the 1637 date by Dashwood. I wonder where this is from?)

Answer 1

Afraid you discovered another fraudulent pedigree the work of Harold Sommersby, OR Anjou they fabricated dozen of false pedigree in the end of the 19th century and begin 20th century including false source material

Answer 2

Although slightly off the topic of whether Robert Hubbard and Robert Hobart are the same person, I couldn't find any mention of his stated father-in-law Rev Matthew Kevell in the Clergy of the Church of England database (CCEd).

There is a John Kevall from 1554-1592 who is probably too early, and a James Kevill who is definitely too late.  There are 6 men with the surname Cavell, though none with first name Matthew.

I couldn't find the marriage of Robert Hubbard and Margaret Kevell either at Holy Trinity, Cambridge, but I'll admit to not checking thoroughly.

Comments

No, I searched for him all over some time ago. I couldn’t find him either (looked at Kebyll etc too.) The only Matthew I could come up with in the time frame was a mariner & member of Trinity House Deptford. I can’t see where the info for him came from as  a father for Margaret, but maybe someone else knows.

(I did wonder if he owed a little to the tree of Sibella Caynhoe daughter-in-law of Robert of Virginia.)

There is a marriage for a Robert & Margaret, I think Hubbard was spelt Hubberd & Kevell was Kevyll. (From memory, will look later)

Answer 3

Hey, Hubbard descendant here. Everyone here made good points but I'm adding this for future viewers. My mother was a Hubbard. They pronounced "Hubbard" differently in different branches of the family, the Hubbards of Norfolk co., England, from whom I mostly descend from, from my maternal side, pronounced it as "Hubbert" and the Hubbard family in a neighboring county over pronounced it as "Hobart." They often spelled their names differently at different points of their lives because of this. Robert Hobart and Henry Hobart are my many times grandfathers, but Robert Hobart spelled his name as Hubbard, Hubbert, and Hobart during his lifetime, Robert Hobart and Hubbard are the same.

Comments

Finding variation of spelling in the 17th century is par for the course and to be expected. Even if Robert did spell his own name in various ways (examples?) this alone doesn’t really aid in identifying his origins.

 Providing reliable evidence that Robert Hubbard of Virginia is the son of Sir Henry Hobart would ‘help future viewers’; simply saying ‘they are the same’ really doesn’t I’m afraid.

What evidence makes you believe they are one and the same?