Any birth records for Marie Zeolide/Zeonide Landry and husband Maximilien Similien Trahan b. 1810-1820's LA? [closed]

Question

Marie Olive and Marie Zeolide and their Maximilien Similien husbands have been conflated in several genealogy site trees, also FAG.  We're trying to disentangle these different individuals. 

Can anyone find the parents of Marie Zeolide Landry c.1822? Was she a sister of Marie Olive Landry? 

We're also looking for birth records for her husband Maximilien Simion "Similien" Trahan c.1816.

Comments

Note that the marriage license at the courthouse is in 1837 and the church wedding is 1835--it's usually the other way around! Father Peyretti, an Italian priest in a French country, is notorious for his many confusing entries particularly when he tried to name godparents and grandparents. I couldn't find any more records on the cd that might help but name variations are difficult.

LANDRY, Marie Oliva (Maximilien & Marie THIBODEAUX) bt. 13 Sept. 1828 at age 3 yrs. & 3 mths.  Pats: Joseph LANDRY & "la marraine" [the godmother - he must have intended the grandmother]; [in this case the child's maternal grandmother would be Anne  [Marie] TRAHAM;  Spons: Don Louis THIBODEAUX & Marie LANDRY.  Fr. Laurent PEYRETTI (Laf. Ch.: v.3, p.66, #197) ; LANDRY, Marie Olive (Maximilien & Marie Domicile THIBODEAUX) m. 23 Feb. 1835 Maximilien TRAHAN (Laf. Ch.: v. 2, p. 185)

:LANDRY, Marie Zeonide (Maximilian & Marie Domicile THIBODEAUX)   m. 9 Sept. 1837 Maximilien TRAHAN (Laf. Ct. Hse.: Mar. #131)

Maximilien TRAHAN

Birth: Southwest Louisiana Records, vol. 2 - Donald J. Hebert - Eunice,LA, Author, 1974 - Church and civil records 1811-1830. - p. 881 - Similien TRAHAN, son of Joseph & Anastasie LANDRY, born 8 Oct 1813 (SM Ch.: v.7, #226).

• Baptism: Southwest Louisiana Records, 1750-1900: compact disk #101 - Donald J. Hébert - Rayne, LA: Hébert Publications, 2001 - TRAHAN, Similien (Joseph - inhabitant at Vermillion & Anastasie LANDRY) b. 8 Oct. 1813, bt. 5 Oct. 1817 Pats: Joseph TRAHAN & Francoise ---; Mats: dec. Joseph LANDRY & Marie MELANCON; Spons: Francois PRIMEAU & Marie Domitille THIBAUDEAU. Fr. Gabriel ISABEY (SM Ch.: v.7, #226)

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Is this not correct?

TRAHAN, Maximilien (Pierre Baptiste & Marcelite SELLERS) m 9 Sept. 1837 Marie Zeonide LANDRY (Laf. Ct. Hse.: Mar. #131)

The other Maximilien we have as husband of Marie O:

TRAHAN, Maximilien (Joseph & Anastasie LANDRY) m. 23 Feb. 1835 Marie Olive LANDRY (Laf. Ch.: v. 2, p. 185)

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Aha! I hadn't seen those entries--we should check them but they are probably correct. Do you have access to the Hebert CD? If not, I'll try to do a deeper search of the records. Two sisters married two Maximilien Trahans--it's very possible.

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No I wish I had it though. Last I checked it was around $450. You can still buy the individual books, but too many volumes and winds up being even more pricey. I found that info on a Desormeaux family tree online. 

I do not know they are sisters actually, as there are no birth records (that I've located yet) for Marie Z. There are also no marriage records for Marie Z (that I've located yet) that mention her parents.

What does seem apparent now is that:

1) they are two different individuals born around the same time with same last names. 

2) they both married men named Maximilien (Similien)  with same last names.

3) the different census records we currently have in their wikitree profiles are completely congruent with their known children, residence places, ages. 

4) I'd go so far to that that *most* extant family trees for Marie O and Marie Z and their husbands are simply wrong due to conflation of sources. Lack of scrutiny apparently. 

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And, it may be that Marie Zeonide and Marie Zeolide aren't the same...

I have started extensive notes on the profile of Marie Trahan that you provided the link for in you OP. I won't post here anymore--it's very complicated-- Karen Theriot has this--https://gw.geneanet.org/katheriot?lang=en&pz=karen+ann&nz=theriot&p=maximilien&n=trahan&oc=3 I will contact her after I've done some additional research. Thanks for calling this to everyone's attention Mike! Yes the CD is the best deal but it is so pricey.

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I've also been reviewing these families. Olive and Zeolide do appear to be sisters. Both of their marriage records give the same parents. I have a handful of discrepancies on Olive's children between SWLR CD and what shows on their WikiTree profiles. The list of children for Zeolide match what I found in SWLR.

Jackie if you're still researching on this family, I can send you what I put together in a Word document. No sense in both of us covering the same ground any more than we already have!

Hope this helps!

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Yes please, I hadn't looked at the children yet. I did write to KTR regarding what she has on geneanet.

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Marie Olive is my 4th ggm. ancestry.com ThruLines™ is on average, showing double cM values with matches listing her children as ancestors than with those listing the children of Marie Zeolide as ancestors. So, FWIW, that's at least consistent with them being sisters.

Answer 1

Not listed as a daughter of:

"12. LANDRY, Maximien"

http://friedman.cs.illinois.edu/genealogy/Joseph-Marie.htm

According to another website Marie Olive and Marie Zeloide are the same person, and the parents of her husband are Joseph Trahan III and Anastasie Landry...?

http://hpeterjr.us/getperson.php?personID=I20123&tree=1

http://hpeterjr.us/getperson.php?personID=I20099&tree=1

Karen Theriot Reader has also Olive and Zeloide as the same person:

https://gw.geneanet.org/katheriot?lang=en&pz=frederick+joseph&nz=theriot&ocz=1&p=marie+olive&n=landry&oc=1

Comments

Thanks Julie. As has been indicated, there are many places where the two households had definitely been conflated. Our efforts at correction seem to have disentangled them to a large extent.

I guess the question is are there any facts which suggest we need to change anything at all in the existing wikitree records? Anything at all that either disprove or substantiate what we already have?

Answer 2

These births seem too young to have married in 1835

Source: "Louisiana Births and Christenings, 1811-1830, 1854-1934", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:HS5X-J4ZM : 14 January 2020), Marie Olive Landry, 1819.

Louisiana Births
: Marie Olive Landry
: Birth 5 Jul 1819   (notice) St. Martinville , Southwest Louisiana Index,, Misc, Louisiana, United States
: Father Maximilien Landry  Mother Marie Domitille Thibaudeau

Source: "Louisiana Births and Christenings, 1811-1830, 1854-1934", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:HS5N-CJN2 : 14 January 2020), Marie Oliva Landry, 1828.

Louisiana  Christening
: Marie Olive Landry
: Christening 13 Sep 1828 Louisiana, United States
: Female Age 3 Birth (est) 1825
: Father Maximilien Landry  Mother Marie  Thibaudeau

Source: "Louisiana Births and Christenings, 1811-1830, 1854-1934", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:HS5X-J4MM : 14 January 2020), Marie Oliva Landry, 1824.

Louisiana Births
: Marie Oliva Landry
: Birth 29 Sep 1824  (notice) Lafayette , Louisiana
: Father Jean Landry  Mother Marie Louise Begnot

Source: "Louisiana Marriages, 1816-1906", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F4ZS-1YR : 14 January 2020), Marie Olive Landry in entry for Maximilien Trahan, 1835.
: Maximilien Trahan
: Marriage 23 Feb 1835  Louisiana, United States
: Spouse Marie Olive Landry

Comments

Chris, the first one you listed would have been old enough to marry. I've seen several in this time period that married as early as 14-16 years of age.

Answer 3

From the following census data it appears that there are 2 different Maxmillian Trahan's married 2 different Marie Landry's or he married 2 women and ran between parishes an awful lot.

Source: "Louisiana Marriages, 1816-1906", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F4ZS-1YY : 14 January 2020), Marie Zeonide Landry in entry for Maximilien Trahan, 1837.

Louisiana Marriages
: Maximilien Trahan
: Marriage 9 Sep 1837  Louisiana, United States
: Spouse Marie Zeonide Landry

Source: "United States Census, 1850," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MCJ4-8QV : 4 April 2020), Maxmilien Trahan, Lafayette parish, Lafayette, Louisiana, United States; citing family 176, NARA microfilm publication M432 (Washington, D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, n.d.).

United States Census, 1850  Lafayette parish, Lafayette, Louisiana
: Maxmilien Trahan   Male      34   Louisiana
: M Z Landry               Female  28   Louisiana
: M M Trahan              Female 12   Louisiana
: M D Trahan              Female 10   Louisiana
: M Trahan                  Male       9    Louisiana
: Pierre Trahan           Male       7    Louisiana
: Beloyne Trahan       Male        6    Louisiana

Source: "United States Census, 1850," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MCJX-8KW : 4 April 2020), Maximilien Trahan, Vermilion parish, Vermilion, Louisiana, United States; citing family 33, NARA microfilm publication M432 (Washington, D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, n.d.).

United States Census, 1850 Vermilion parish, Vermilion, Louisiana
: Maximilien Trahan   Male       34   Louisiana
: Marie Landry             Female  30    Louisiana
: Emile Trahan             Male       13    Louisiana
: Clairville Trahan        Male       11    Louisiana
: Emilia Trahan            Female    8     Louisiana
: Jules Trahan               Male        6     Louisiana
: Emelie Trahan           Female    5     Louisiana
: Carmilien Trahan      Male        2     Louisiana
: Felicia Trahan            Female    0     Louisiana

See the births of children here: different mothers matching children in census data. https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?q.givenName=Maxmilliam&q.surname=Trahan&q.birthLikePlace=LA&q.birthLikeDate.from=1813&q.birthLikeDate.to=1817&q.spouseGivenName=marie&count=20&offset=0&m.defaultFacets=on&m.queryRequireDefault=on&m.facetNestCollectionInCategory=on

Comments

Thanks Chris. AFAIK, these records had already been correctly assigned to their respective households in the provided Wikitree profiles?

Answer 4

Source: "United States Census, 1880," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MDX2-4HV : 14 August 2017), Marie O Trahan, Lake Peigneur, Vermilion, Louisiana, United States; citing enumeration district ED 14, sheet 11B, NARA microfilm publication T9 (Washington, D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, n.d.), FHL microfilm 1,254,473.

United States Census, 1880  Lake Peigneur, Vermilion, Louisiana
: Marie O Trahan  Self  Female  64   Louisiana, United States  Widowed
: Emelia Trahan    Dau  Female  38  Louisiana, United States
: Francois Trahan Son   Male      16  Louisiana, United States

See also: same Marie  above in 1870  "United States Census, 1870", database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M87G-YQB : 19 March 2020), Marie Trahan, 1870.

Source: "United States Census, 1880," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MD6T-NCJ : 15 August 2017), Zeolide Trahan, 4th Ward, Lafayette, Louisiana, United States; citing enumeration district ED 24, sheet 483A, NARA microfilm publication T9 (Washington, D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, n.d.), FHL microfilm 1,254,455.

United States Census, 1880 4th Ward, Lafayette, Louisiana
: Zeolide Trahan   Self    Female    60    Louisiana, United States  Widowes
: Joseph Trahan    Son    Male        17    Louisiana, United States
: Marie Trahan      Dau   Female     26   Louisiana, United States

According to FAG  Find a Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com : accessed 08 September 2020), memorial page for Marie Olive Landry Nunez (4 Jun 1825–unknown), Find a Grave Memorial no. 136743849, ; Maintained by JLMuck (contributor 48337557) Unknown.

Marie Olive sister to Marie Zeolide married Martin Nunez.

Will need sources to confirm.  See Martin and Marie at: https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?q.givenName=martin&q.surname=nunez&q.birthLikeDate.from=1800&q.birthLikeDate.to=1825&q.spouseGivenName=marie%20olive&q.spouseSurname=landry&count=20&offset=0&m.defaultFacets=on&m.queryRequireDefault=on&m.facetNestCollectionInCategory=on

Comments

Thanks Chris. Do you see anything incorrectly attributed in their Wikitree profiles?

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I think this Marie Olive https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Landry-4858 with Max and Marie as parents and sister to Marie Ziotilde might be the wife of Martin Nunez and not Max Trahan.  But probably unproven.  The sisters seem to be buried together but FAG doesn't appear to be sourced.

Answer 5

It looks to me like two Maximilien Trahans. One born in 1813 has different parents than the ones listed on your profile linked above:

"Louisiana Births and Christenings, 1811-1830, 1854-1934", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:HS5V-MLN2 : 14 January 2020), Similien Trahan, 1813. 

Father's Name:	Joseph Trahan
Mother's Name:	Anastasie Landry

Comments

I have that record attributed to Marie O's husband.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Trahan-1075

The reason is:

; TRAHAN, Maximilien (Joseph & Anastasie LANDRY) m. 23 Feb. 1835 Marie Olive LANDRY (Laf. Ch.: v. 2, p. 185)

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The other Maximilien we have as husband of Marie Z:

TRAHAN, Maximilien (Pierre Baptiste & Marcelite SELLERS) m 9 Sept. 1837 Marie Zeonide LANDRY (Laf. Ct. Hse.: Mar. #131)

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That would explain the two 1850 census records with two locations and separate children. MZ was born about 1822 according to the census she's on. She could have married at 15 in 1837 (especially with the somewhat addled priest mentioned by Jackie). I doubt that the two wives with husbands w/same names were sisters.