Is there a source for Collier-383 as a wife for Christian-153 Illiam Dhone

+7 votes
110 views

Christian-153 William Christian (Illiam Dhone)'s profile has an apparently well sourced reference to Cockshutt-7 Elizabeth Cockshutt as his wife. There is also an unsourced reference to his wife as Collier-383 Elizabeth Collier. Please could any interested party please let me have details of sources for his wife being Elizabeth Colllier, failing which as part of the work I am doing for the England Project on Christian-153, I would need to remove her as his wife.

Re-tagged by Fitz-Henry-9 8 September

WikiTree profile: Illiam Dhône Christian
in Genealogy Help by Nick Kennedy G2G1 (2.0k points)
edited by Jo Fitz-Henry

1 Answer

+4 votes

Thanks Nick. The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (J. R. Dickinson, 2004) says:

Some time before 1626 Christian married Elizabeth (d. 1665), of an apparently unknown family; they had eight sons and a daughter.

I would suggest digging deeper on Elizabeth Cockshutt too. I'm not totally sure, but it looks like the source for her surname is The Peerage, citing the online family tree of a person named Richard Glanville-Brown in 2005. I would be trying to work out if that online family tree is based on reliable sources. This page Reliable sources for pre-1700 profiles in England recommends against using The Peerage and online family trees as sources.

by I. Speed G2G6 Mach 4 (43.4k points)

The source on Elizabeth Cockshutt's profile is stated as  "US and International Marriage Records, 1560-1900" and apart from not giving more details, that database is also known to be a very unreliable source.

It's listed in the unreliable sources on this help page.

My argument for Elizabeth Cockshutt being the wife of William Christian (Illiam Dhone) can be summarised as briefly as I can as follows:

The main sources for Christian family archives are:

* The Christian Annals in the Manx Museum

* A genealogy deposited at the College of Arms, London in 1798, and

* A legalised Pedigree at the Genealogical Office at Dublin Castle, Ireland,

These sources are public but not accessible to an internet searcher. However there is a fairly extensive library of publications produced by historians who have presumably done this research, and I suggest we should be able to rely on these, certainly in preference to other unsourced theories,

The publication I would rely on here is "The Yesterdays behind the Door" by Christian-3293 Susan Hicks Beach (1956 Liverpool University Press). On P. 39 This describes Elizabeth's father George Cockshutt from Kirkham,  William and Elizabeth spending her dowry on a house called Nether Sparth near Great Harwood (which still exists) and living there until 1637. All place names are in Lancashire, England.

Some confirmation is provided by a newly digitised parish record from the nearby village of Altham has records for the christening of their sons George and James in 1634/5 and 1637.

I can provide a lot of extra detail if required.

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