Primary sources for Walter Newdigate (b. c 1474) [closed]

+3 votes
172 views

Is anyone able to help with reliable sources for the subject this profile and his wife Isabella Hampden? It's asserted (https://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p3138.htm#i94249) that they are covered in several of Douglas Richardson's publications:-

  1. [S16] Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. II, p. 333.
  2. [S4] Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. III, p. 196.
  3. [S15] Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, p. 402.
  4. [S6] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry: 2nd Edition, Vol. II, p. 654.

I'd be grateful if anyone with access to these works could confirm that these references are correct, exactly what they assert and whether they cite any primary sources.

Thanks in anticipation,

Chris.

PS Adding Magna Carta tag, in the hope that someone on that project may have access to Richardson.

WikiTree profile: Walter Newdigate
closed with the note: More than fully answered and the profile has been updated accordingly.
in Genealogy Help by Chris Weston G2G6 Mach 1 (12.8k points)
closed by Chris Weston
We seem to have good evidence for the existence of Walter Newdigate the son of Thomas who died in 1576.  British History Online (https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/surrey/vol3/pp310-315) states however that this Walter's son Thomas had only two daughters: Mary who married William Steper and  Ann who married William Smithiman. This doesn't match up well with the subject of this question, who's son Thomas is said to be the father of at least three children, including Elizabeth the wife of William Poyntz and Anne the wife of John Skinner MP.

I note that History of Parliament simply notes that John Skinner's wife's father was either Thomas or Walter Newdigate (https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1509-1558/member/skinner-john-ii-1509-71).
Thanks to everyone who contributed to Walter's profile with all the excellent responses. I've edited the biography to try and give a fair view of what we know.  I think it's a huge improvement on what we had before and am happy to close the question now.

6 Answers

+3 votes
 
Best answer

Walter Newdigate and his wife Isabella Hampton are not actually covered by Richardson.  They are mentioned in passing on the profile of Katherine Hampton who married their son, "Katherine Hampton married (2nd) Thomas Newdigate (Newdegate), Gent., of Wivelsfield, Sussex, son of Walter Newdigate by Isabel, daughter of Thomas Hampton, knt." (Note: this comes from a copy of ''Magna Carta Ancestry'' I can see online; I will confirm the wording hasn't changed in ''Royal Ancestry'' when I get home, but it often doesn't).

I placed all 7 references given by Richardson on the profile of Walter Newdigate.  That his wife's name was Isabel Hampton seems to come only from Maclean.  His connection to his son and his parents some from the Visitations of Surrey and Buckinghamshire.

With the references given by Richardson, we can only confirm his son Thomas, but not either of the two daughters given on WikiTree.  We also cannot confirm the LNAB of his mother from Richardson's sources.

by Joe Cochoit G2G6 Pilot (205k points)
selected by Chris Weston
The wife of John Skinner was Anne Newdigate, but apparently her parentage isn't actually known.

"Anne, daughter of Thomas or Walter Newdigate"
According to the only source... Elizabeth Newdigate was a daughter of Thomas, not of Walter Newdigate.
Thanks for looking those up for me Joe and for going the extra mile with all the additional information.
+4 votes

Findmypast has this (might need to post over a few )

First name(s) Walter

Last name Newdygate

Year 1576

Testator first name Thomas

Testator last name Newdygate

Court Surrey Archdeaconry Court

Contents

SW/16_194

Thomas Newdygate of Newdigate, esquire, sick 20 Feb 1575/6 [piece at bottom right lost] (to be buried in the church in the middle pavement before the glass window where the Newdigate arms are set; to poor ..)

to wife Agnes house I live in called Newdigate Place and land Woodlande on west side of river called the Rythe from Rawchaw or Rawchaw Field to the Bemeland for life and a mill called the water mill on said river, a field called the Mill Field on east of said river and messuage called Rolfes and Hennies on north which I bought from John Kempe; all furniture in chamber within the new parlour, joined bed and its trappings in chamber at lower end of hall and a joined bed now in the old parlour all to son Walter after death of my wife; to son Thomas his chamber and keep and £2 p.a. from my son Walter from Southelande and Marles and if he refuses chamber to have £10 p.w. for life; to my son Walter land Berelande, Strydelande, Southeland and Marles crofts and tenement in Charlwood called Newdigate's Crofts, Edgelowsfield in Rusper, a meadow by Gatwick House in the occupation of Robert Mathewe, a garden plot called Pollesden's garden, Kymers Mead and a close by Hale House, in Newdigate, Charlwood and Rusper with remainder to my daughters Agnes and Venus Newdygate between them; to my son Walter reversion of all land etc. in the occupation of Parnell Massey, widow called Clarkes land, Horsey land, Deaneland, Bachylers, Ratfolde and Hurst in Newdigate and Capel; to Joan Saunder, widow mother of John Wryght £30 for purchase of tenement; to son Walter all manor of Newdigate; after death of my wife house I live in and land Woodlande and in Charlwood on west of river by the water mill, Millfield and messuage Rolfes and Hemmes in Newdigate to said Walter; out of Haseleast Horsey 1s 6d p.a. and 6d out of (Mr) Lyghe's Southeland, 4s out of Little Gylden, 11d out of Horsey Land, 1s out of Dennet, 1s out of Gatwick House and a croft, 8d out of Moses House and land lying by the mill 2s 6d and tenement in Horsham with two gardens to him forever with remainder to my daughters Agnes and Venus; to said Walter 12 silver spoons willed by my uncle Richard Newdygate to me; residue to my wife Agnes, exec.

Overseers: friends (Mr) Edmund ...; ... Eyer, jnr., gentleman (.. each)

Witnesses: Thomas Eyer; William Saxbye; Richard Mathewe; John Kempe; Robert Butler; 

John Gardener; John Morgan, parson of Newdigate

Proved: 7 Apr 1576 to Walter Newdygate proxy for exec. [DW/PA/5/1576/42] <6 Apr 1576 proxy 

of Agnes to Walter>

County Surrey, London

Country England

Source Surrey & South London Will Abstracts, 1470-1856

Volume title Volume 16 Filed & unregistered Wills 1572-1581

File volume 16

Abstract reference SW/16_194

Record set Surrey & South London Wills & Probate Index, 1470-1856

Category Life Events (BDMs)

Subcategory Wills & Probate

Collections from England, Great Britain

Cliff Webb

© Cliff Webb

by Marion Poole G2G6 Pilot (965k points)
Fitted it in one!
Thanks Marion.  I think the profile represents an earlier Walter, who would have been the son of Thomas Newdigate the great, great grandfather of this testator (see the pedigree at https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=GaNbAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA266).
+3 votes

The first reference, to Richardson's Magna Carta Ancestry, is available via Google preview.

Walter is only mentioned in passing, but Richardson does provide his sources, which may yield further details.

by Nic Donnelly G2G6 Mach 5 (50k points)
Thanks Nic.  That's definitely the same Walter that Marion mentioned.  It that's the case for all of the Richardson citations for this person on the "Our Royal, Noble and Commoner Ancestors", then I guess the date of birth on our profile needs to be much later and the parentage is wrong.  I'll take a look at it later on.  In the meantime, if anyone has access to the other Richardson books, I'd still be grateful to know what they say.
You could try adding "Magna_Carta" as a tag, as that project uses Richardson quite a bit and someone may be able to to a lookup of the other citations.
Done. Thanks for the suggestion.
+4 votes

I think Ronny Bodine cites the primary sources

https://books.google.com/books/about/The_ancestry_of_Dorothea_Poyntz_wife_of.html?id=DKFIAAAAMAAJ

Unlike many modern books, this one is well-regarded.  But I can only see snippets.

by RJ Horace G2G6 Pilot (562k points)
edited by RJ Horace
+4 votes
Thomas (presumably Walter's son) appears in a number of deeds relating to Wivelsfield at East Sussex archives (TNA Discovery catalogue)

They used various spellings eg Newdegate, Nudegate.

An earlier Thomas (presumably Walter's father) appears in the Bray papers at Surrey History Centre.  (The Brays had a manor in Wivelsfield)
by RJ Horace G2G6 Pilot (562k points)
+3 votes

The MCA and RA citations only connect Walter to his wife, Isabel Hampden and son Thomas. No dates are given

1. MCA II:333, HAMPDEN 13, Katherine Hamden married second Thomas Newdigate, son of Walter Newdigate, by Isabel, daughter of Thomas Hampden, Knt.

2. RA III:197, HAMPDEN 18, same info as above

3. No vol. is named, probably 1st edition, no longer used by Magna Carta Project

4. Plantagenet Ancestry is no longer used by the MCP, but is available online.

by Traci Thiessen G2G6 Pilot (132k points)

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