rules for unsourced profiles

Question

In advance of the Sourceathon this weekend I have a question: If a profile has no UNsourced banner, but only a source that looks like this (and the link to the source doesn't work):

Source S01761

Title: 1900 U.S. census, population schedule, Wayne County, West Virginia

Repository:

Note: #NS17613

Call Number:

Media: Census

No NOTE record found with id NS17613.

For the sake of the sourceathon, Is this considered an unsourced profile??

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Answer 1

Quick Answer - It is NOT considered an unsourced profile for Source a Thon because of the information in the biography.

It has to have the Unsourced Template or Category for Unsourced Profiles.  It can also have one of a few suggestions 131-134 and 802-803.

As an example, this is what the Connecticut Unsourced Profiles page has, showing all the options.

https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Category:Connecticut%2C_Unsourced_Profiles

Comments

But I can't see the suggestions list unless it's my profile. How do I know if it carries suggestions 131-134 or 802-803 if it is, for example, an orphan profile?

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Each profile has its own suggestions list, under the profile number at the top of the page.

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I've never noticed that before.....thank you!

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Have the rules changed for the source-a-thons? The template has not been required for the profile to count before. There are more unsourced without a template than with and I encounter them wherever I go so add sources to them.

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So here's another example, as Patricia notes (I've adopted several orphans like this intending to research them during the thon - no one has tagged them, but they are certainly unsourced....:

This person was created through the import of THWEATT43.GED on 04 March 2011.  The following data was included in the gedcom. You may wish to edit it for readability.

=== Name ===

: Name:  /Sarah/

Couldn't find any valid first name.

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My understanding from what is shown on the Team page is what 'wikitree' deems as an Unsourced profile, which is the template, or the Unsourced Category, or one of those suggestions.  

I agree that there are tons of profiles with no sources or just a family tree.  The Help Page for Source A Thon has the following:

• Participating means removing profiles from the Unsourced Profiles category. They cannot be new profiles that you create.
• Select an Open (white) profile from anywhere in the category or one of its subcategories and search for sources to back up the facts of the person's life.

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But just a few lines below what you have taken from, is clarification on what counts and links to this G2G post,  which states that adding sources to any unsourced profile counts.  There are many with the Unsourced template, that have real sources (census etc) so adding more sources to them, just because they have the template, should not count just because there is a template. 

When I add sources I do the whole family and rarely do they all have a template, and as far as I know, I've never had those profiles not count in source-a-thon. I will continue to source the whole family, but am I forbidden to count them now?

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The G2G thread you mentioned is from 2017.  I am going by what it has on the Current Help Page. The link for Unsourced Profiles at the top of that G2G goes to the Category: Unsourced Profiles.  I had seen it posted 'somewhere' that they would only be looking at the 'unsourced' profiles with the category / template as of Wed, also, probably because that is when Ales would refresh his retrieval of those items.  

I agree that when I source a profile, especially with a census, I normally add it to everyone that is included in the family list.

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The link to the 2017 definition/question is on the Help page. I’d like clarity too as I’d like the opportunity to source some of those “Unsourced family tree handed down to.....” profiles. (Yes, I know they don’t need the Unsourced template.) It would be great if the team could make this clear on the Help page or as a separate post.

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I am not admin, or an expert - but for the source-a-thon, I interpret an unsourced profile to be one that has the category tag { { unsourced profile} } on it.

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I feel like I'm beginning to argue and that is not my intention at all, but that link I posted is from that Help page for Source-a-thon that you linked to above. on that page is a question about what counts in the Source-a-thon, and if you click on that question, it goes to the G2G thread I linked to, which as you noted, that thread links back to the page you linked to.  That is why I'm trying to get this sorted, as it is confusing if some of us think we should be sourcing all unsourced profiles no matter how we came upon them, and others believe they should be sourcing only those with Unsourced category, regardless of it's real source status, because it counts only if it has the template.   

Just trying to get it sorted as had researched what counts and until reading this post, believed that my usual process of sourcing all unsourced profiles I find counts, so reading that they don't has me confused. 

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I have sent a message to Admin for clarification and asking them to post, including this G2G.

The template creates the Category, but you can also add the Category on a profile 'without' the template, so it isn't just the template.  Also, the Suggestions that are being shown do not necessarily have the Category or template, but Ales / Admin are considering them as Unsourced.  I agree that there are a ton of profiles that are not marked and don't have those suggestions on them at this time that have no 'valid / primary' sources on them.

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I looked through the Source-a-Thon Tutorial and it also states in Step 4 to look in the Unsourced Profiles Category, with a screenshot of what I had initially linked to for Connecticut. It states 'Only profiles from those categories will count'.

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It states 'Only profiles from those categories will count'.

If that's the case this time, I can see a lot of profiles going untouched.

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And the mud just keeps swirling. New post that has answers to Sourse-a-thon questions   lists link to the very same page, that links to the 2017 thon post, as an answer to the which profiles count. That is the only guidance it offers and it clearly says if you find profiles with NO sources to please add them and count it, which is what makes sense to me.

I add a lot of Unsourced templates to profiles, but NEVER take the time or waste the screen shot space to add it to everyone in the family.  I place it on one gateway profile, in assuming that when it gets found the rest of the family will get sourced also.  

I also remove a lot of Unsourced templates from profiles that have very good sources on them, the template just never got removed. 

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I found a G2G for 2019 Source a Thon Questions that states they have to be in that Category (and I assume the Suggestions)

https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/919225/do-you-have-source-a-thon-questions.  It is the 8th answer where Kathleen answered (has +9 votes) and Melanie had verified that they had to be categorized as 'unsourced'.

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The official email seems to imply otherwise -- emphasis mine :

3. Remove the {{Unsourced}} template or [[Category:Unsourced Profiles]]
categorization, if there are any.

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#1 states You can use any profiles from the Unsourced profiles categories: http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Unsourced_Profiles as well as a couple specific Data Doctor suggestions lists.

#3 states 'if any' because it can be from those Suggestions 131-134 and 802-803 which are on the Unsourced Location pages, and in #1 states a couple specific Data Doctor suggestions lists.'

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Then they need to change the instructions because at the top of the official post just added to G2G is the link to instruction page where only place on it, about which profiles count is this question

• What profiles count as "unsourced" for the Source-a-Thon?

Clicking on that question, the answer clearly states that adding sources to any unsourced profile counts.  People can say contrary dozens of times, and people can like that opinion but they need to change the official rules to match that opinion for it to have merit. 

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If you find a profile without sources that isn't in the Unsourced category, please do add the sources. (Thank you!) Technically, I suppose you could add the {{Unsourced}} Research Note Box, thereby putting it in the Unsourced Profiles category, and then add the source(s), and then remove the {{Unsourced}} RNB. But that would be ridiculous. Don't do that. Just count it. :-)

by Chris Whitten

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So, do we get ridiculous and add the {{unsourced}} first, then add the source/s, then remove the template - - or do we do as Mr Whitten said and "Just count it". 

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I had seen that they were only counting the 'Unsourced' as of the data dump that was being done Wed / Thurs, but time will tell on Friday, if it is allowed.  He had said that back in 2017, so, I think, things have changed since then.

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Yeah.. I know it's from 2017, but the situation hasn't really changed.  Not all profiles without sources get the category, or the template added.  So they sit unsourced until someone accidentally finds them.  No reason we can't go hunting them down for this 'Thon, seeing that it is the theme for the 'Thon.

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I agree, but per the 2019 Questions, you, Melanie, had tried it and it didn't count the sources added to profiles without the category or specific suggestions.

I also think it would be nice to be able to add more than one source and have it count more, but that was also stated as not possible. Adding one source is not necessarily really sourcing a profile properly when the template is removed, and the remainder of the sources available will probably not be added.