Comments on DBE 465 - New Spain

Question

On 5 Oct 2020 Cindy (Bourque) Cooper wrote on DBE 465:

Also New Spain should be allow as it is the english version of Neuva Espana. Would you prefer that we mark these as false, or can you add this to the table as well? Thanks, Cindy ps://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Theriot-449

I Added Nueva España and New Spain. Which today's countries/states did it cover?

Comments

I noticed, that I had new spain also under Canada. I corrected that. I still have different years involved.

 

New Spain	1521	1821	New Spain	1366
New Spain	1521	1821	Nueva Espana	108
New Spain	17621113	18001030	Nueva España	6041

First we need to define New Spain or Nueva España at the end of the location. When and Where. Later we can add entries like Luisiana, Nueva España with more precise location and time.

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I think all three of these spellings should be set to 1521-1821. They are all in reference to the same regime. The 1762-1800 range applies to most of Louisiana and probably other states that evolved from the Louisiana Purchase.

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I just noticed, that sometimes it it Luisiana and sometimes Louisiana. Is that a language difference?

I added another entry for Louisiana to the table.

New Spain	1521	1821	New Spain	yes	1366
New Spain	1521	1821	Nueva España	yes	6041
New Spain	1521	1821	Nueva Espana	no	108
New Spain	17621113	18001030	Luisiana, Nueva España	yes	87

 

I aslo set Nueva Espana as not official. It is only 100 of them. Is that ok?

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My understanding is that the language used should be consistent throughout all of the components of a location. So the Spanish spelling of Luisiana should only be used with Nueva España, and the English spelling of Louisiana should only be used with New Spain. And as Marcie pointed out, Nueva Espana is incorrect spelling and shouldn't be considered an official version. All instances of it should be corrected to Nueva España.

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I added english spelling to the table.

Answer 1

On that profile check these categories:

Luisiana, Nueva España which gives text - the English version is under Spanish Louisiana

Here is the history: Luisiana, Nueva España, 1763-1800

Louisiana was the name of an administrative division of New Spain from 1762 to 1800. Before 1762 when Louisiana was ceded to Spain in the secret Treaty of Fontainebleau, France controlled Louisiana. In 1800 Napoleon regained Louisiana for France briefly before selling it to the United States in 1803.

During the Spanish era of Louisiana, Alta Luisiana was north of the 36' 35" N near Nuevo Madrid (New Madrid); south of the line was Baja Luisiana.

The English version of the Spanish possession at that time is not New Spain in English.  The English translation is Spanish Louisiana.

You  can use the correct timeframe category in both Spanish  as was used at their time, and the English version; the actual place is  Luisiana, Nueva España at the time and you can use the correct translation, Spanish Louisiana, in the biography.

For the official place - see the explanation above.  For further explanation, check with the Louisiana Project for their input here.

As far as Suggestion 465, it is correct; questions about the suggestion on the profile related to a suggestion should be asked on the profile, not the suggestion page.  For locations, check with the location project for input.

Hope that helps.  Stay safe

.

Answer 2

I tagged Louisiana Families as they would have better answers.  Maybe I am wrong just from having seen it so much!

Answer 3

Thanks to Cindy for bringing this up. I also have intended to request adding New Spain as an accepted name in the database, along with New France. Both of these have popped up recently as errors, but they should be correct uses.

I don't understand how "Nueva España" doesn't translate into "New Spain". It absolutely does. Regarding countries and states that were part of it, please see the extensive list in this Wikipedia article about New Spain. It covered a lot of North and Central America as well as other places. I think "Louisiana, New Spain" and "Spanish Louisiana" can be used interchangeably and are both valid uses. 

Answer 4

Are you looking at Nueva España or Nueva Espana?  It makes a difference because the latter is misspelled.

Answer 5

Sorry to further complicate this issue, but if we're following the mandate of "their place names, at their time, in their language," (or do I have that wrong?) then "Nouvelle-Espagne" (French for New Spain) should also be accepted from 1763-1800 in Louisiana and other French territories ceded to Spain after the Seven Years' War and before the Louisiana Purchase.

Comments

https://wikitree.sdms.si/function/WTWebLocationSpelling/Spelling.htm?Location=Nouvelle-Espagne

It is used 100 times. It can be added. It is not my goal to find all improper languages of the place. The current goal is to put a place to the map as precisely as possible.