Was John FitzWarin (d. 1417) the uncle or great uncle of Fulk FitzWarin (1406 - 1420)?

Question

Curently he is the great uncle, but he might need to be moved a generation down to make him the uncle.

John "held the manor of Spitchwick in his demesne as of fee of Robert Ponnyngys, knight, of his manor of Stogursey in Somerset by knight service, annual value 10 marks."

John's heir was "Fulk Fitzwaryn son of Fulk, son of Fulk his brother"

In the Devon IPM for Fulk FitzWarin (1406 - 1420) it states: "John Fitzwaryn was seised in his demesne as of fee of the manor of Spitchwick and on his death it descended to Fulk son of Fulk Fitzwaryn, knight, a minor, as his heir, i.e. son of John's brother Fulk, and was taken into the king's hand, where it remains. The manor is held of Robert Ponynges, knight , of the manor of Stogursey by knight service."

John is not in Richardson's book Royal Ancestry.

Comments

I've added tags for England and Euroaristo to bring your post to the attention of more members.

Answer 1

If you have a look at The Complete Peerage, 2nd ed., vol. 5, pp. 500-504 then if John FitzWarin is the son of Fulk FitzWarin, 4th Lord FitzWarin, then his brother is Sir Fulk FitzWarin, 5th Lord, his nephew Fulk FitzWarin, 6th Lord and Fulk FitzWarin, 7th Lord (born 1406, died 1420), is his great nephew.

Comments

That's how I originally read it, but the 1420 Devon IPM for Fulk FitzWarin has John FitzWarin as his uncle.

"John Fitzwaryn was seised in his demesne as of fee of the manor of Spitchwick and on his death it descended to Fulk son of Fulk Fitzwaryn, knight, a minor, as his heir, i.e. son of John's brother Fulk"

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John FitzWarin held the manor of Spitchwick subject to the manor of Stogursey of Robert de Ponynges, son of Isabel Fitzpayn, daughter of Sir Robert Fitzpayn who obtained full possession of the manor of Stogursey in 1356.

Elizabeth Fitzpayn (sister of Isabel) was the wife of Thomas de Audley brother of Blanche de Audley (probable) mother of John FitzWarin.

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Elizabeth Fitzpayn's heir was Robert de Ponynges son of Isabel her sister.

Elizabeth and her husband, Thomas de Audley, had been seised of lands at Stogursey, Wacher, and Durburgh, Somerset, which lands came into the king's hands by the minority of Robert de Ponynges as by the custody of the manor of Stogursey, Somerset which was held of the king in chief.

Complete Peerage Addition: Elizabeth Fitzpayn, wife of Thomas de Audley and Hugh Courtenay
https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/VCrNXvfPZGU/m/uDA15dKCLjQJ

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the version I saw adds a generation

JOHN FITZWARYN

692

Writ 16 Dec. 1417.

DEVON. Inquisition. Exeter 5 April 1418

He held the manor of Spitchwick in his demesne as of fee of Robert Ponnyngys, knight, of his manor of Stogursey in Somerset by knight service, annual value 10 marks. He died on 3 Oct. last. Fulk Fitzwaryn son of Fulk, son of Fulk his brother, is next heir, aged 14 years and more in the king’s ward.

C 138/25, no. 7

http://www.history.ac.uk/cipm-20-part-vi

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This is identical to what is published on the British History Online website.

Going by how the manor of Spitchwick passed through the family, the (best fit) for John is great uncle of Fulk FitzWarin (1406 - 1420).

John's (probable) brother Fulk FitzWarin (1362 - 1391) bequeathed the manor of Spitchwick in his will to their uncle Philip FitzWarin for Philip's life. Philip died in 1406.

The manor was most likely settled on John FitzWarin by his nephew Fulk FitzWarin (1389 - 1407). When John FitzWarin died with out issue the manor passed to his great-nephew Fulk FitzWarin (1406 - 1420).