Who are the correct parents of Karin Olofsdotter (abt. 1590 - 1671) who was married to Per Anundsson Klumb?

+1 vote
154 views

Who are her correct parents?

Here on WikiTree we have her as the daughter of Daughter of  and .

There are quite a few research notes typed into her Geni profile.

So on Geni it has different information for her parents. Geni lists her parents as Per Olofsson Bottnekarl and Margaretha Königsdotter Kenicia.

"Karin Persdotter." Geni. Accessed Oct. 19th, 2020. https://www.geni.com/people/Karin-Persdotter/6000000024350003263.

Where as on Family Search it lists her parents as Per Olofsson Bure (1548-1608) and Margareta Konigsdotter Kenicia (1552-1610).

"Karin Olofsdotter." Family Search. Accessed Oct. 19th, 2020. https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LXBT-RXN.

WikiTree profile: Karin Burman
in Genealogy Help by Erik Granstrom G2G6 Mach 2 (29.8k points)
I would be very careful here. Family Search listing has sources attached that put her as the mother of children that were born after her death. Also those attached sources are not from their records, but are from old IGI -- which is the same as just going by an anonymous gedcom. So if you're a relative I would be doing research instead matching.

3 Answers

+5 votes
First of all, Swedish women never took their husbands last names until the 1900's.

Second, since we are so far back as the 1600's, the last name of the wife might actually not be known. It was common for the time to refer to someone as "Karin, wife of ...."  

Unfortunately, National Swedish Archives have not scanned the earliest death book for Piteå, it is available at Arkiv Digital if you have access to read it there; v138641.b122.s233

I have not had time to check if any of the online trees actually contain any reliable sources. If they don't, any guess of her last name and parents is just as good as another.

Research this early is nothing that can be done quickly, sometimes it may take days to investigate and the result might still not be reliable.
by Maggie Andersson G2G6 Pilot (128k points)

Thanks for looking up the page, Maggie. It says: 26 Feb h. Karin, Pedher Anund i Siul... That's the burial date, and, as you predicted, no patronymic or "last name". It also says how much was paid for the funeral and given to the church.

Actually, the record can also be found at Riksarkivet. They are just not always that clear about where to find marriages and deaths when it's all included in a single ministerial book, filed under birth books.

Piteå landsförsamlings kyrkoarkiv, Födelse- och dopböcker, SE/HLA/1010154/C I/1 (1658-1713), bildid: C0035048_00133, sida 232 https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0035048_00133

I did take a look at the info on her profile, which seems to be the same as the info on the Geni profile (I'm not sure). I also followed it back to Anbytarforum (by Googling, the link doesn't work) and it comes from a small cluster of speculative notes from a single user, whose reliability I have no means of evaluating. It certainly isn't a peer reviewed publication.

For truly evaluating this a specialist on early Norrland history is needed. I suspect they ar few and far between in G2G.

+1 vote
by Juha Soini G2G6 Pilot (101k points)
Thanks for posting this.

So it's according to this manuscript by Nils Jakobsson Burman (1705-1750) that Karin Burman, the wife of Per Ammundsson in Klumban is a daughter of Olof (Andersson) Burman. The grandparents of this author will have been contemporary with Karin.

Whereas Geni and Disbyt go with the speculative ideas presented in Anbytarforum that make her a Persdotter (and not a Burman at all, I presume). I have not seen a discussion of those ideas, just a single person presenting them. But then, I don't move in those circles.

Most of the contradictory information online can be traced to Nils Vilhelm Marks von Würtenberg, a chief archivist/genealogist at the Swedish House of Nobility 1812- 1817. His work was not up to modern standards according to the House of Nobility web page:

Ur metodisk synpunkt var Marks von Würtenberg ett barn av sin tid. Den kritiska forskningsmetoden hade ännu inte slagit igenom. I likhet med sina föregångarna byggde han i alltför hög grad på namnlikheter och svaga möjligheter och graderade inte i tillräcklig utsträckning sina källors värde. Hans bearbetning av den äldre tiden lämnar därför ur modern synpunkt mycket övrigt att önska. 

I am more inclined to believe a relative who lived close in time.

Which means that the current parents on the profile are the ones to keep.

Possibly too much space there is given to the speculations on an alternative.
Thank you for your input everyone.  I am not trying to make any claims one way or another, I had found my way back to this profile after comparing a relationship trail on Geni and saw there was a discrepancy in the parents listed that obviously requires more research.  

I just like to post questions and leave comments on profiles when I can because otherwise how can we remember our questions later on?

I know there are some genealogist researching the Bure family, though it is probably easier to trace along the male Y-DNA line.

PEACE!
Hello Juha,

Looks like Olof Andersson Burman (1550 - 1603) (https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Burman-64) is our common ancestor, assuming that the information in WikiTree is correct.

In his profile it has the note that he was a "bad neighbor" to the Rev. living next door. Perhaps they were playing their music too loud at night!!!  

Thanks for your help in researching!

~Erik

Hi cousin. smiley Nothing is certain when we go that far back in time, taking into account 1-3% false fathers per generation, the scarcity of sources back then and of course interpretation of said sources, both handwriting and choosing between the many Anders Anderssons etc. 

It is a shame that the Johan Bure genealogy stops with the children of Olof Andersson.

+1 vote
I have uploaded some screen captures of info found on DISBYT to the profile.
by Gerry Hagberg G2G6 Mach 1 (15.9k points)
Well, that amounts to an unsourced family tree.

I guess it serves as an indication that a majority prefer the speculations from Anbytarforum to Burman's genealogy from the first half of the 18th century.

As I keep saying, I'm not competent in the particulars of this area - but I would feel more comfortable if I knew that there had been discussion before these new ideas were so generally accepted over the old ones.
Feel free to delete the images - I will not be offended.

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