Please refrain from creating new Religion categories

Question

The main Religion Project has been in hiatus for some time and Categorization has been neglected. We are now about to undertake a complete re-evaluation of the Religious Categories. Since there could be a lot of change, I'm asking that no new Religion categories be created until the after the process has been completed. We don't have a timetable for the process yet but that should be coming in the near future.

Comments

M. Doug McCallum .. C'est Bon Magnifique ! 

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Can we get an update, Doug?

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Yes, update would be good to help ongoing confusion among members who have not followed this thread and what is underway. Thanks.

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Yes, I would also appreciate a status as I need a historical category made.

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Four years later... what's the status of this hiatus, please? Someone elsewhere is requesting a new religion category...

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Four years is a long time to wait for a work in progress. Is this still in process, or has the effort been abandoned?

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There was an update on 16 July 2023.

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That's not really an update but a response to a specific request...

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Does this mean that I need to delete the categorizations related to parishes saved in my relatives records updated no later than 2 months ago that are still marked as unexisting ?

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I believe that it's now OK to make categories for individual congregations. The unresolved issues apparently are about naming and structure of higher level categories for religions and religious denominations, and probably also naming and categorization of religious leaders and clergy.

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Just commenting here so I get notified on updates as interested in the outcome. Thanks!

Answer 1

Thank you, Doug. This is a much-needed update for religious categories.

Answer 2

I'm looking forward to this!  If you need assistance, let me know 

Answer 3

Small question: Should I now put a profile in a high-level category, when the more specific category is missing? Many of these high-level categories have a message to put profiles in a lower level category.

Comments

Right now that would be preferable to creating new ones that might end up being renamed or removed.

Answer 4

Does this mean Quaker monthly meeting categories that need creation within that established structure should not be created?

Comments

Yes. This is a temporary situation while we look at things in detail. Please bear with me.

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T, for American Friends the "Quakers in..." free-space pages can probably be used to indicate new meetings that need creating. I think there are similar spaces for English Quakers?

Answer 5

This moratorium pertains specifically to creation of new subcategories in the tree under Category:Religious Categories? It might be helpful to have a note on that page.

Does this affect subcategories or free-space project pages under Category: Religion Project (which is not under the abovementioned category)?

Comments

The moratorium doesn't cover this sub-tree but since this is the Religion Project category, new sub-categories need to be approved by the Religion Project. Currently all that is here are sub-Projects of the Religion Project.

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Thank you, Doug.

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Doug, is the timetable foreshadowed in your original post now available?

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Congregations (church/meeting/etc.) is now available for use but still has some work being done.  For these, the CategoryInfoBox for Congregations must be used. Other parts of the hierarchy will be worked on once congregations are completed. Church cemeteries have been moved entirely to the Cemeterist Project. As part of the congregation work, the "denominations" and church polity sections are mostly being removed. These sections had gotten too complicated to use.

Work is ongoing.

Answer 6

I am about to create a Space Page for the an early Baptist Church in Alabama. I am using records of this church in a One-Place-Study and want to place the church information on it's own space page.   -----   Any suggestions appreciated.

SOOO, I need a Space-Page and I need a category for a historical Church that in practical terms no longer exists.

I am thinking for category -

Alabama, Historical Churches, Tallassehatchee Association 1834, Benton County, Alabama, Hopewell Baptist Church

or

Alabama, Historical Churches, Tallassehatchee Association 1834, Cherokee County, Alabama, Hopewell Baptist Church.

or Alabama, Historical Churches,  Tallassehatchee Association 1834, Calhoun County, Hopewell Baptist Church 1832.

HISTORY

While there is a New Hopewell Church that is historically tied to Hopewell Church, Cherokee County. There is little other connection in location or doctrine.

When the congregation decided to have their assembly authorized by the Alabama Baptist Church they called themselves "United Baptist Church of Christ" on Terapin Creek (August 14, 1832. Note this is before the Indian Cessation  of 1833, so the church was in the lands of the Creek and Cherokee).

The new church as Examined by Bazel Roden a Baptist Minister. The church was soon renamed the New Hopewell Baptist Church and joined the Tallassehatchee Association which was formed in 1834.

I want to call this the New Hopewell Baptist Church.

It's location changed numerous times over it's early years, due to actual moving and to political boundaries moving.

The church is considered to be the first Baptist Church in both Benton and Cherokee Counties.

I am using records of this church in a one place study and want to place the church information on it's own space page.

Comments

Church categories have some specific rule and also include a mechanism for historic churches.

First, "New Hopewell Baptist Church"

If this exists, what is its official name? Where is it located. The Congregation CategoryInfoBox (CIB) rules would name the category using the form "official name", "location".

In the CIB you can have start and end dates plus any other names it was known by.

The historic churches would be named the same. We don't include dates in the name. This all goes into a new structure of Religious Congregations. There is also the ability to link historic churches with newer ones using a timeline mechanism.

We wouldn't use the "Tallassehatchee Association 1834" name in the category name. That is what would be referred to as polity and we no longer categorize to that level. The affiiliation would be baptist and the association would fit best in the church descriptive text.

The grouping structure for these counties will need to be setup so if you provide the following, I can setup the categories:

• Official name of the church
• Location (to the narrowest place like city. To county if outside a city. Location should be city, county, state
• Address (if known)
• Start and end dates if historic. 
• webpage if there is one
• wikidataID if there is a wikipedia article
• space page

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Thank you Doug. Here are some answers - 

1 - There are currently no church categories in Alabama, so that is wide open. That said, there are numerous Hopewell and New Hopewell churches in Alabama both today and in the early 1800's

2 - I misspoke earlier. The original church was the "Hopewell Baptist Church" at Lidaga, in today's Cherokee county, Alabama. I have sources for the name and the location. The church minutes for the Hopewell Baptist church at its charter in 1832 to 1847 are published in the FamilySearch Catalog. This published copy by Mrs. Frank Ross Stewart was issued as a part of the current church's sesqui-centennial celebration in 1982.However, that publication mixes information about the modern church with the historical church, including a variety of church names. 

3 - The church today that evolved from the original church is the "New Hopewell Baptist Church", it is in Piedmont, Calhoun County, AL. 

The space page will be about the Hopewell Baptist Church at Lidaga, Cherokee County, Alabama, 1832 to 1847. I have not created the space page yet. I wanted to get the details sorted out and the category decided first. 

I would prefer the church be categorized by it's historical name and location, on Terrapin Creek, at Lidaga, Cherokee County, Alabama. Note that the hamlet of Lidaga does not exist anymore. The last sighting on a map is 1910. In the 1800's, there was a Post Office at Lidaga and I have the Post Office registration for the place. Also the first US Geographic Service Topo map for the area (1898)  shows the hamlet of Ladiga. 

4 - The church is not mentioned in WikiPedia. The establishment of the Hopewell Church is discussed in "A History of the Rise and Progress of the Baptists in Alabama" by Hosea Holcombe, Publication" King and Baird, Printers, Philadelphia, 1840. In that text the location is given as Benton County, Alabama. But location where the church met is in today's Cherokee County.

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Not sure if this is related, but EditBot recently merged the category "Primitive Baptist Church Ministers" into "Baptist Ministers".

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It wasn't done as part of this effort and I don't know who initiated it. The religious "occupations" will be revisited in the future.

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Primitive Baptist is an interesting group. At first I thought Hopewell Church may have been Primitive Baptist but decided not. I need to read more about this. I am wondering if Primitive Baptist is something the adherents would have used to describe their church. Or if this is a grouping made by historians and/or genealogists.

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Thank you LG,

I like the way you presented the information on 15th November.

I did not have any great interest in the original question. However, I have found this discussion interesting and educational.

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I searched newspaper archives and found the term in common use at the turn of the century.

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Thanks for checking the newspapers.