Comments on Reginald (Crawford) de Crawford

Question

PM response on this profile notes that changes cannot be made due to lack of pre1500 certification, can someone with that cert help? Amy Gilpin perhaps, or someone in the Crawford One Name Study?

On NaN undefined NaN Thom Anderson wrote on Crawford-601:

Crawford-4366 and De_Crawford-17 are both using the same citation (Scots Peerage, v. 5, p. 488), both married to Margaret Loudoun (both DeLoudoun-1, in fact) and both sons of De_Crawford-4 who is named Galfridus rather than John).

Answer 1

I'm not sure how I missed this comment, Jonathan.  I am working on this issue now so if you have additional information to share, I'd appreciate it.

Comments

No worries, Reginald has been waiting about a thousand years, few days more won't hurt. I really just bumped it to G2G because Terri said she was unable, so not intimately familiar with this. However, I just received my new copy of Laurus Crawfordiana, so I will look up tonight what cousin George had to say about it in the 1730s. Still not very contemporary.

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Wonderful!  Thanks for that.  I'll look forward to hearing what you find.

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Was browsing the profile, the Peerage link lists the sources they used, which at least some seem available online too, so there's probably a chain of real sources we could walk back through:

Peerage p 488 lists:

1. Origines Parochiales i. 161: https://digital.nls.uk/publications-by-scottish-clubs/archive/81025516
   1. this also has sources listed which could probably be investigated further (mostly uses the Liber St. Marie de Kelso below)
2. Reg. de Passelat, 22 : (don't know about this one yet)
3. Chart. of Newbottle, 105 : ("Charter of Newbottle Monastery in 1170" maybe? I don't see that online, but it is mentioned as a thing that exists in https://archive.org/stream/chasealliedfamil00unse/chasealliedfamil00unse_djvu.txt )
4. Liber St. Marie de Kelso, i. 152 : https://archive.org/details/libersmariedecal01kels (looks like maybe should be page 153, but the paragraph addressing it starts on 152)

Also, I was disappointed there wasn't a bibliography within the Peerage, but reading the liner notes, it seems to be a phenomenally sourced and authoritative work, edited by the Lord Lyon, etc. While it would be good to add the links above, I would say that is just about as trustworthy a source as could be found. 

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Yep, that's part of what I'm working on 

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See Space:Laurus_Crawfordiana for source citation info, but here is what it says:(original spelling)

"Craufurd

Reginaldus de Crawfurd was I think was Dominus de Crawfurd himself and was also viccomes de Air in 1226. He had Johannis de Crawfurd who is the gentlman that died in 1248 and was interred at Melross. He had the heirs female with whom Douglas has the dispute in 1259 and the second was Hugo de Crawfurd filius Reginaldi de Crawfurd that is witness to the foundation of Dalmalin and is the gentlman that has married the heiress of Loudon and is the Hugo that getts the charters of Monoch etc from Allanus fillius Rollandi Constabularius Scotie and from him is clearly the House of Loudon.

Who are the heredes Johannis filii Reginaldi de Crawfurd is more than I can say for the hereds Johannis de Crawfurd that he had the Calumpnia with is people different from him so that if the House of Douglas matched with them it has been a former heiress of him that got a part of that estate much further back."

Page 217, "54. Loudon and Crawfurd", f.117v (folio 117 verso, meaning the 117th looseleaf page, the reverse side)

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I am not sure that matches up to the Peerage, but the way I read it, George Craufurd thought Dominus and Reginald to be one and the same, and thought he had two sons, Johannis and Hugo

Johannis, first son, had some unknown daughters and then he died in 1248 and was interred at Melross.

Hugo is the one who married the heiress from which comes the House Of Loudon, and George seems to have no doubt of that.

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The names are in Latin, so I agree that Dominus (meaning Master or first of the line) and Reginald are the same.  Johannis = John and Hugo = Hew (Hugh).  So at least the names match.  Thanks Jonathan!

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Reg. de Passelat, is Registrum monasterii de Passelat and p. 22 has witnesses to a document, including 'Reginaldo de Crawford, vicecomite de Are', and a few witnesses later, 'Hugone filio Reginaldo'.

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And the Chart. of Newbottle, would probably be the Chartulary (or cartulary) of Newbottle, but I think it is actually Registrum S. Marie de Neubotle, Abbacie Cisterciensis Beate Virginis de Neubotle chartarium vetus.  Page 105 does have a reference to 'Reginaldo de Crauford tune temporif vicecomite de Ar'

The index has other references to him as well.

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Thanks!  There were actually multiple profiles which have now been cleaned up and merged.  They are also project protected to prevent additions of mystery children and spouses.

I have added additional sources as well.

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Amy, as it was a brand new to me book, I just looked up Reginald in the index and jumped. I short-changed you, there is a lot of information, including texts of charters, etc. I will add more as I am able, it really is a great resource so far.