Parents of Joseph Ladouceur

Question

I am searching for the names of the parents of Joseph Ladouceur who married Elizabeth Robidou in 1791 at Oka Quebec as listed on the PRDH website. They do not have a copy of the Parish record on Family Search or Ancestry.com. Could someone with access to the PRDH have a look at this? Thanks.

Comments

Any idea when or where he was born?

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Without the parents names I can not be sure. I suspect he may be the son of Pierre Ladouceur and Marie Gaudry but  the marriage record would confirm this. It may be a second marriage but again I can't confirm this.

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Hi Bob, I added a few tags to your question - hoping it will help getting the notice of our friends from Quebec and Quebecois project members who are likely to have access to PRDH.

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Thank you Isabelle.

Answer 1

Is this her with first marriage 

https://www.ancestry.com/sharing/21862188?h=dc8920

Comments

It looks possible however the marriage record did not give the parents names. I have added a profile for Elizabeth Robidou, Robidou-56

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It looks more like this is the Elizabeth Robidou that married Joseph Ladouceur. I have located the burial record for Louis Boileau, her husband who died in 1788. This couple lived in the Parishes of Vaudreuil, Sainte Madeleine de Rigaud and Oka which makes it the more likely that they would have known Joseph Ladouceur. Thank you Marion for pointing me in this direction.

Answer 2

Hey there Bob, 

I’m sorry to say that the source Parish record does not reference the parents of either Joseph or Elisabeth. 

It does reference a Julienne Robideau though.

https://imgur.com/a/pnd8V9c

Comments

Thanks Cody it appears to me it is Etienne Robidou and could be either father or brother. Etienne Robidou appears in at least two baptisms of their children. This gives more reason to believe it could be the second marriage of Elizabeth Robidou as mentioned in Marion Poole's answer above. Joseph Ladouceur's parentage is still a mystery.

Answer 3

looked at it in Drouin collection, no parents named, the only person named other than official witnesses is an Etienne Robidau.

You may have to do it the hard way and look at every baptism to see if godparents have relationship named, which they sometimes do.  The couple had a child baptized in January, ''natural child'', but no luck on godparent connection there.

Comments

lord love a duck!  

Joseph's family has 2 ''dit'' names, Lamadeleine and Vivien.

His first marriage with Marie Cécile Sauvé has him named Joseph Vivien, son of Pierre Vivien dit Rabastau (another dit name, but only he bears it) and of Marie Anne Gaudri.  3 June 1778 in Ste-Geneviève (later Pierrefonds).  One child only from the marriage, no sign of marriage for the child.  His wife gets buried under the name Félicité Sauvey, wife of Joseph Ladouceur, 26 Dec 1788 in Vaudreuil (died 23rd, sudden death, aged at least 40).

Can't find a baptism for Joseph.

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Thank you Danielle for verifying all of these items. The names Lamadeleine, Vivien and Ladouceur have been interchanged commonly with each other all through the parishes for members of the same family. Rabastau seems to be used only by the descendants of Pierre Ladouceur dit Rabastau (Ladouceur-46) and not very often. Joseph Ladouceur (Ladouceur-200) was baptized Joseph Lamadeleine dit Ladouceur on Feb 22, 1753. He was recorded as Joseph Rabastau in his marriage to Marie Cecile Sauve June 3, 1778. At his daughter Marie Marguerite's baptism he is recorded as Joseph Ladouceur. So you see how the name is interchanged although it is the same person. It makes it difficult to confirm he is the Joseph Ladouceur that married Elizabeth Robidoux. Although they were both free to marry by the deaths of their spouses, and they lived in the same communities there is the other Joseph Lamadeleine dit Ladouceur (Lamadeleine-27) brother of Francoise Ladouceur that fits equally as well. Same age and same name. He also is the brother of Francoise Ladouceur who has a proven connection to Joseph Ladouceur and Elizabeth Robidoux.

So I think the next step is to try and find out what happened to Joseph Ladouceur, Born Feb. 9, 1752 to Jean Baptise Ladouceur and Dorothee Brisbois at Saint Anne de Bellevue. I had suspected that he may have died but could find no record for him outside his birth record. If we can eliminate him that would make us one step closer. So maybe Drouin has a record of him that I don't have access to. Can you see if there is anything.

Thanks again.

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hmm, nope, not recorded as Joseph Rabastau on his marriage to Cécile, but as Joseph Vivien.  

Ladouceur-27 is a woman, not a Joseph.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Lamadeleine-28 Joseph Lamadeleine dit Ladouceur married with Françoise Rouleau married her in 1777, she died in 1804 so not the right man.

Joseph Magdeleine, son of Jean Baptiste and Dorothée Brisebois, was born & baptized 16 Feb 1750 in Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue.   https://www.genealogiequebec.com/Membership/LAFRANCE/acte/275534  Bapt IGD - Drouin (membership)

Joseph Lamadeleine son of same parents was born & bapt. 9 Feb 1752 in Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue

https://www.genealogiequebec.com/Membership/LAFRANCE/acte/275606 Bapt...

Joseph Eustache, son of same, born 15 Jul 1754 bapt. 16 Ste-Anne..; Eustache married Marie Louise Pilon in 1784

There is a Joseph Ladouceur who died 13 June 1809, buried 15th in Ste-Geneviève (Pierrefonds), given the age of 56 on the record, cited present Joseph Brisebois and Eustache Rouleau, no mention of relationship to anybody.

https://www.genealogiequebec.com/Membership/LAFRANCE/img/acte/2864647 funeral image IGD ...

There is a Joseph Ladouceur husband of Marie Anne Pilon who dies 23 Jan 1846 buried 25th in St-Polycarpe , given the age of 78, not likely to be the one you are looking for.  https://www.genealogiequebec.com/fr/LAFRANCE/carte/5602 map

The biggest problem is the wild variety of names they use, but on looking at the marriages I find for the children of Jean Baptiste and Dorothée, Eustache's marriage, there is no brother cited present named Joseph, just his father and brothers Pierre and Louis.  He would have been old enough then to attend if living.  Other brother Luc got married the same year, family wasn't around for it.

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Sorry it was Joseph Lamadeleine (Lamadeleine-27) born on Feb 9, 1752 that I was speaking of and you do have him above, son of Jean Baptiste Ladouceur and Dorothee Brisbois. I am sure the other son Joseph born 1750 has died as an infant as this Joseph was born next. I have been unable to find any other records about him. All the other Joseph's you mentioned are on Wikitree and are not him, their families are well known to me.

At the wedding of Marie Madeleine Lamadeleine daughter of Jean Baptiste Ladouceur and Dorothee Brisbois July 13, 1795 Sainte Anne de Bellevue, is present Joseph Lamadeleine who says he is a friend of the husband Antoine D'Aoust. Her brother Louis Lamadeleine is present. I checked all other marriages for the children of Jean Baptiste and Dorothee and no Joseph appears other than the one mentioned who is not a brother.

You are right about all the Joseph's with name variation as it appears who ever the priest is that is transcribing the records seems to give whatever surname suits him. The Copy of the parish record I have for the marriage of Joseph Ladouceur and Marie Cecile Sauve clearly names him Joseph Rabastau in the margin and you are correct Joseph Vivien in the marriage record..

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L99S-K71L?i=448&wc=9RLC-JWL%3A24054401%2C24054402%2C25748401&cc=1321742

I looked at the baptism record for Marie Marguerite Lamadeleine daughter of Joseph Ladouceur and Cecile Sauve, March 17, 1779 at Vaudreuil. On the following page of this record is the Baptism of Pashal Robidou, March 29, 1779 godmother is Elizabeth Robidou. I would believe that this Joseph Ladouceur must have known Elizabeth Robidou and is still the best candidate as her 2nd husband.

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Well, the marriage of Agathe Robidou above clearly shows that her sister Élisabeth remarried, since there is no other Joseph Lamadeleine/Ladouceur who marries a Robidou in this era.  So that definitely shows one side of the equation:  Élisabeth remarried.

I am led to the conclusion that the Joseph who married Cécile Sauvé is the one who remarried; at least one of the two between Joseph and Élisabeth has young children, would definitely be in the marriage market, so to speak.

All these people are living quite near each other, and there is probably a lot of back and forth between them.  The fact that a Françoise Ladouceur is godmother to one of their children is not conclusive that she is aunt of the child, since the record names no relationship.  My own godmother was my mother's first cousin, so it's not just sibs and parents that get picked for the duty.

I suggest you set him as Élisabeth's second husband, with notes on the profiles to the effect that this appears to be the correct man from evidence to hand, you can link this G2G discussion in the notes too.

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oh, and when looking at names to enter for them, always look at the body of the text first, the margin entries are done after the fact, sometimes long after.

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Thank you again for all the time you have put in to help confirm my research on this. The bulk of the evidence points to this conclusion. Some times the document just does not exist. I will connect them with each other.

Just for your information I have found another parish record that used the name Rabastau here:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G99Q-MQ9Z?i=108&wc=HCZK-929%3A16144001%2C17487201%2C18608901&cc=1321742

It is for Clemence Leroux born May 1, 1839, died August 6, 1839 Saint Benoit, daughter of Joseph Leroux and Marguerite Ladouceur (Ladouceur-190) In the burial record it names Marguerite Rabasteau as the mother. She is the Great-Granddaughter of Pierre Ladouceur dit Rabastau.  

 I had a discussion with another Ladouceur a few years ago that had heard through his family that they were descendants of Rabastau dit Ladouceur but had not been able to confirm it before he saw my use of it here on Wikitree. He was a descendant of the very same Joseph Lamadeleine dit Ladouceur we are researching. Unfortunately I have lost his name and never made a profile for him as he is still alive. I only confirmed his ancestors.

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you're quite welcome.  

You got me curious, so I just did a search for any appearance of the name Rabasteau/Rabastau in Drouin collection, from 1620 to 1920, male or female.  It shows up exactly 3 times, the two marriages of Pierre's children (Pierre Vivien dit Rabastau both times) and the one with Marguerite cited mother of Clément Leroux on the boy's funeral.

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In the marriage of Denis Samson to Marie Josephte Narbonne August 8, 1826, his mother is named Marie Josephte Rabastau ditte Ladouceur. She is the daughter of Pierre Ladouceur dit Rabastau.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-8993-W5X2?i=397&wc=HC7P-PTL%3A24354201%2C24354202%2C24354203&cc=1321742

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lol, Drouin institute read that as written Robastau.  the ink sort of spilled over on this one, hard to differentiate.  And their database program didn't match the 2 variations.