Coordinating coming edits of the Thomas Gardner (Gardner-159) page [closed]

Question

It's about time to handle the several edits that are pending for this Profile. The base will be RC Anderson's profile on Thomas Gardner. Then, we will add in notes related to recently discovered material, such as two wives. We will also update Margaret Friar's Profile. 

Having mentioned that, we don't need those labels like "View of the Great Migration Project" as that is our starting point. And then, mods will either be from recent material or by pointing to something missed earlier. 

As we do this work, we would like to fill in the Profiles of the 2nd generation. Plus, we can edit the Wikipedia page to get it in sync with this one. Incidentally, we will blog our portion of the work at our site. And, thankfully, WikiTree's core is not forgetful (everyone realize that?).  

The '5 Edit notes' section is mainly to mainly handle details where things drop off when done. An empty list will denote being done in the sense of everyone being happy (not that there will not be future changes - especially, since a lot more records are now on-line). 

Also, using a G2G like this does not, to what I know, break any rules. This may turn out to be large, except Section 5 will help alleviate some of that and will eventually disappear.  

So, let the fun begin? Oh yes, over the next few months (thanks to the times of the virus), I'll be here to review and to work on a regular basis. 

BTW, no "mother, may I?" needs to be said, ever. Or, as an old boss noted (huge company), it's easier to 'beg forgiveness' than get permission. Too, rather than weigh WikiTree down, we can offload some material (that's what the TGS, Inc. site is for, in part - but there are other alternatives). 

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This work is parallel to that of Editing Margaret's past. 

Comments

Hey John, thanks for gathering some troops to work on the profile of Thomas Gardner.  I’ve been following the comments on his profile, with interest and I wish you the best of luck with this families’ profiles.

Thomas Gardner’s profile is protected by the Puritan Great Migration, so you know (but others may not) that the project requests no changes to the top data section without first a comment and collaboration with others in the PGM project.

I will protect the PGM profiles of those who migrated with the parents, so basic information (at the top portion of the profile) will be preserved,  until others within the project have opportunity to review and concur with any change.

So move on ahead with the group who volunteer, John.  All of you enjoy yourselves.

Cheryl, PGM Leader

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Hi again, John.  I noticed last night that this g2g post is using the category "Requests for Project Volunteers" which is a category reserved for Project Leaders and Project Coordinators.  Also the g2g "Editing Margaret's Past" is in that category as well.

Both of these g2g posts need to be recategorized to "Genealogy Help."  Just press "edit" at the bottom right of your post, go to the pull down menu beside the word "category" and reselect the correct one.

Thanks so much.

Cheryl Skordahl, PGM Leader

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With regard to burial, Thomas was buried at his 'Gardner' Hill. But, his bones and those of a slew of others were scattered to the wind, later. https://thomasgardnerofsalem.blogspot.com/2019/01/29-december-1674.html

A descendant of his son, Samuel, sold the land (Harvard guy, didn't need the money) that had some verbal agreement attached to it. This was when things were popping in the area due to people needing shoes. A descendant of his son, George, visited the place not long after and wrote of his findings (stones moved, some broken, no idea as to where graves were - as in, not an archeological site - rather, capitalism at its finest). Later, Sidney Perley, great asset to Essex County, noted that some bodies had been moved to the Trask plot (still there). We're trying to track that down.

Too, we want to do a virtual cemetery. I want to talk to people who grew up there about the terrain as they remember. I found this painting of the view from Gallows Hill that would have been about the same elevation. We're talking a 'U' shape. All of this can be studied with records. It's an on-going project. Too, there were some court proceeding about the whole affair.  

But, it turns out that little Essex County, of such note, has hundreds of instances where graves and bones were left unlabeled through movement of stones, in some cases, many times. Too, at this site right on the line of Peabody and Salem, they scarfed the terrain to improve movement (commerce essential). You know, we see this all of the time with highways cutting through the landscape.

An ironic twist. Looking at the site via Google, it looks as if the little cemetery that was disturbed is now covered, in part, by a building, the Holy Ghost Society. That, to me, is Thomas' response.

I first asked the question of the burial in 2010 at Harmony Grove, itself and several times after when talking to people. Never got a good answer. So, went looking. There's more to do, but it's on the stack like a lot of other stuff.

BTW, after taking a further look at the FindAGrave, I'll suggest edits to make it more of an asset. Sometimes, it's easy to get changes. Not always.

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Has anyone tried the witching or dowsing technique there?  Just curious . . .

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Where's the 'like' button? I see several things that could be done. 1) Build a 3D virtual model. I know the gaming approach has something to offer. Lots to discuss with this. The dimensional aspects would come from a walkabout just like Sidney did. 2) Try to determine who was buried there. We know of a few: Thomas, grandson Abel, Abel's wife (her mother was John Hathorne's sister), ... Harmony Grove has some stones. Need a survey of these (in the area - top-left corner - across the river from the Holy Spirit Society's building). Then, we could have a virtual cemetery where we could collect info on these people. 3) Research the records with respect to the road work that was done, including land sales (acquisitions) for the right-of-ways. Look at the businesses that were in the area at the time. 4) Research court records with regard to this sale. It was challenged some way, I think I read. Unsuccessful. George's records are at the Mass Hist Soc (? - need to check that). 5) So, some type of imagining (which relates to Darlene's comment) that would look for bones. I got some of my material from the Trask family who still have their plot right there. Actually, the work finding Richard III's remains motivates (especially, since some Gardners think that an ancestor was involved - note, not saying Thomas' family, rather All Things Gardner). But, technically, this can be interesting. 6) ... the list goes on. I'm not young enough to do the work; however, I can roam the web's (muddy cloud, essentially) domains sufficiently to pull together tidbits that intrigue (given time).

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Thomas is my 10th great-grandfather, so I love all that you are doing.  My grandmother (his 8th great) would be thrilled to know I was able to make the connection 20+ years ago through a will I located at the North Carolina state archives to connect my/her Barnard line with the Nantucket Barnards.  If I were up in the area (and it wasn't winter), I would be happy to witch the area and see what was located.  You'd hope everyone wasn't dug up when the Holy Spirit (love it!) building was built -- or covered by the building.  Are you in contact with anyone that could do that?

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Gardner's Hill was lowered partly to fill in the marshy land along North River as well as to facilitate a new road. So, any remains would have been scattered, perhaps buried too deeply for a sub-surface scan. 

It would be interesting to read of the earth-moving equipment of the day. The road work was in the 1840s. Before that, and after the sale of the land, there were areas where tanning took place. Modern gaming approaches would be a good way to model the terrain and even do a type of AR (augmented reality) overlay with a historic flavor. 

I remember seeing an earlier attempt to have students follow along with people on their traversal of the Oregon Trail (which split from the Santa Fe Trail near Gardner KS, named for a Mass Gov). 

The group that went from Mass to KS, in support of its 'free state' status, described their journey quite well. A telling little fact was the need to lower wagons down this little river and back up (practice for the western experience). Usually, there was a need to break down the wagon before the transport and then put it back together. 

For starters with regard to Gardner Hill, pulling together some elevation maps would help. And, writing stories about the characters involved would be a great asset. I just saw a blog that took a random walk along the 3-Trails and wrote of sites and events. 

On another note, we really like the WikiTree approach and its potential use as a method to document the first five generations of the descendants of Thomas and Margaret. 

Answer 1

Thank you for coordinating this effort. If I understand correctly you are looking for volunteers? I can do a little work on the descendants of daughter Sarah (Gardner) Balch. I think I am the profile manager already for a lot of her descendants. I looked at your blog and was shocked (in a good way!) at the list you have of notable or near notable descendants (that I probably manage) that need their profiles improved.

Also, if anyone else wants to work on the Balch profiles I manage, there is no need to coordinate with me. Some I adopted and haven't touched and others are just a shell of a profile. I would be grateful if any other descendants would like to improve the Balch branch of the family.

Comments

Thank you. Sarah was the first one that I really looked at due to Balch being at Cape Ann and their house (John Balch House in Beverly- Jan 2010). Then, I saw things like first Chaplain of the Continental and U.S. Navy (father and son) plus Chaplain of the King's ships (;>), Medal of Honor, Greeley (everyone ought to know of him and his cousin), and recorded these when I ran across them. If you find more, let me know. Sarah's sisters, Miriam and Seeth, need attention. 

I've been in a collecting (making notes and notices) mode for a decade (literally, millions pieces of stuff - virtual artifacts), I figured that it was time to start doing some curating (Ann's brother is at the Smithsonian MNH, so we've seen that type of collections). 

On notables, what I think that I learned is that one can leverage a bit if there is an association (doesn't have to be blood). Early works (til the computer) stressed this (like the Gardner Memorial - actually same people in the 1907 book, just a few more). With the computer, we can do a more complete job (if we keep digitally wise). 

I expect that this work will go like Wikipedia. No one needs to say "mother, may I?" before doing something. We can all work. The logs and traces will allow conflict resolution, usually. 

Too, there have been lots and lots of Gardner work done. WikiTree seems like a good place to get this brought out in a manner that will persist (as much as technology will allow - btw, I'm a computational technologist not a genealogist - I need to talk Bayes to those gals and guys). 

Answer 2

This is being put here for emphasis. Whatever is done needs to resolve several issues brought up by this site. This might be a separate G2G. 

Life of Rev. John White

• His sister, (6) Elizabeth White, married a Thomas Gardner. They claim (1st paragraph) that her husband came over and went back and is buried there. 
• The list of their children on this page does not include a Thomas. Nor does the Will of Thomas. 
• Frank (author) mentioned that he had heard of two Thomas Gardners coming over but had not seen any evidence. Yet, the Peirce family tried to show this. 

It is interesting that Ann has one of the other Rev's sisters, (5) Martha White, in her tree through her daughter, Elizabeth Cooke Walton. 

Comments

John, for the record, Anderson's Great Migration Directory does show two Thomas Gardners, one emigrating in 1624 and one in 1638.  Thus:

“Gardner, Thomas: Unknown; 1624; Cape Ann, Salem [GMB 731-37].
Gardner, Thomas: Unknown; 1638; Roxbury [NEHGR 6:183; Dawes-Gates 1:308-9; Granberry 225-27]. (His son Peter came to New England in 1635 on the Elizabeth and also settled at Roxbury [GM 2:3:12-16; NEHGR 159:40-42].)”
-- Excerpts From: Robert Charles Anderson, FASG. “The Great Migration Directory.” iBooks.

In "The Great Migration Begins", Anderson shows that the first of these two did have an eldest son Thomas, b. say 1614, but that Thomas married an Elizabeth _Horne_ -- not Elizabeth White.

Elsewhere in the "Great Migration" series he also appears to make a clear distinction between the first man, who was "of Salem", and the Thomas who died at Roxbury and was the father of Peter, also of Roxbury.

The Peirce claim might be based on confusion of Elizabeth Horne with Elizabeth White.  I'll try to research this further.

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Christopher, thanks. Yes, we know of Thomas of Roxbury. His son is in Ann's bag of ancestors. 

This other Thomas is noted by work being done across the pond with reference to the Company and its Founder. 

I mention Peirce's work since I have run across lots of studies, and that family was prominent enough to have spent some proper brain power. I need to slow down the collecting and do some filtering (curating ;>). 

Answer 3

Could you add the following categories?

[[Category:Gardner Name Study]]
[[Category:England, Gardner Name Study]]
[[Category:Massachusetts, Gardner Name Study]]

Also, the name study template?

Comments

Not sure how to do that.

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Hey, changed it above. Just copy & paste to top of the profile. :-)

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Thnx. I added those to the profile via the Categories edit. I was looking for how to add a category to the G2G itself ;>).

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Awesome thanks! 

Answer 4

Just checking in. John asked me to work more on Seeth Gardner's family, so I am. I'm putting my work on my desktop genealogy program. I am experimenting with writing my source citations in a way I think will work perfect with WikiTree (hee hee hee). Then I am going to upload it in gedcom form and see how it did. I'm going to do a small upload this weekend just to see how it looks.

As a bonus, I am finding more connections to the Gardner family through Seeth! I know I descend from Sarah, but also Seeth apparently.

Comments

nice...  excellent follow-through, Lucy.

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Great work.

About Seeth, she and John Grafton are ancestors of Charles Sanders Peirce (so good, even Bertrand Russell used his work).  

I think that all three of the girls need a little more attention.

Here is a Miriam descendant that I ran into recently.

https://thomasgardnerofsalem.blogspot.com/2022/04/lorenzo-and-peggy.html

My work is basically from outside of New England and tracing back. The west of the U.S. (for a large part) was a New England project.

Answer 5

In Feb of 2023, new information provided more evidence of Thomas and Margaret and their children, however it is from the other side of the waters. Not in New England.

See the G2G about searches on Sherbourne record that throw new light.

https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1539793/comments-on-thomas-gardner-of-salem-1591-1674

As said, Thomas Gardners, were everywhere.