Can someone help me translate the bride's surname?

+5 votes
104 views

I am having trouble translating the surname for the bride.  Marriage record is the second one on the left side: 24 Feb 1732, Bartholomoum son of Jacob Kadaun farmer from Jelmo and Elisabeth daughter of Procup Trut?  farmer from Libnic.

Question: the record shows the village as Jelmo.  Does that indicate the village where the groom is from and NOT where the marriage took place?  I understand the marriage is usually located at the bride's village.

https://digi.ceskearchivy.cz/2768/127/1519/1724/66/0

I appreciate your help!

UPDATE: I reviewed birth records without success.  I looked at multiple years of Seignorial Registers with success.  When I put the facts together I was able to locate the birth record for Elisabeth/Alzbeta.  She was born Niemecz.  This name is on her birth record and the family is shown with this name on the Seignorial Register.  When she is married her maiden name is Trütsch. What conclusion should I come to?

in Genealogy Help by Phillip Jares G2G6 Mach 2 (21.7k points)
edited by Phillip Jares
The bride’s surname looks like Trütsch.

Thanks George.  Does that mean the name is probably written Trütš?  I am assuming that was the German version when the record was written.

See Dieter’s answer, below. I do not think Czech uses “ü”. Helmut posted that there was no standard for converting the Czech version into the German version for names.

If this were my family, I would leave it as Trütsch because that is what is written in the register.

Ultimately, for WikiTree, I will defer to those with more expertise in Czech.
ok, thanks George

"š" did not exist before the mid-19th century. The English sh sound was represented in Czech writing in the 16th century Orthographia Bohemica, attributed to Jan Hus, as "ṡ", but most commonly written as "ſſ".

Helmut, is there a good printed resource that explains all these variations?  My memory is not best and I am afraid of making mistakes.  Something with a timeline would be great.  Thanks for your input!

2 Answers

+3 votes

I read also Trütsch. Trütš is the same name.

The record is written in Latin language. But in Bohemia lived a lot of people with German roots. That means that many parish records are also written in German language or at least surnames were German origin.

At that time the village was part of Südböhmen (today Czech Republic), Kingdom of Böhmen (Bohemia).

1740 Maria Theresia became Arch Duke of Austria and Queen of Bohemia and Hungary.

What I found about the village Jelmo:

(Jelmo)
- Wüstung (deserted town):
before 1786 České Budĕjovice
Parish: Libnitsch (Libníč)
District: Jihočeský
County 2002: České Budĕjovice
County  1939: Budweis
Judical District (1910): Lischau
Dominion: Frauenberg (Estate of Krummau)
 

by Dieter Lewerenz G2G Astronaut (1.3m points)
Thank you Dieter.  I am getting better reading these records but sometimes I can not understand everything.
+3 votes

My hunch is her name is not Trütsch but Teutsch. Niemecz is the old ortographic form of Němec = German. There are several Teutsch families in the area, havn't had time, though, to check Jelmo. Seigniorial registers in particular tend to use Czech names, whereas church registers often mix them up with some baptisms under the German name and others using Czech for the same families.

by Helmut Jungschaffer G2G6 Pilot (544k points)
Only found Niemecz and Niemetz for the family in Jelmo. Elisabeth's baptismal record has her father as Niemecz, so Teutsch should only go into the Other Names field.
In looking at the the letter “e” is written elsewhere in this register, and it appears to be clearly and consistently the same, I think the second letter in the bride’s surname is not “e” but “r”.
Helmut, I always wonder about the Vulgo usage.  I have seen it used in both church and seigniorial registers and get confused when trying to determine what the correct surname is.  Is there any information about how it is usually recorded?  Or are we at the mercy of the record takers?
German: I have reviewed a lot of church records and I think this area has a lot of German surnames (50% maybe) compared to other parts of Southern Bohemia during this time frame.
Even within predominantly German speaking areas there were villages that were majority Czech. Libníč was one of these. In 1910 for instance there were 348 Czechs and 2 Germans living there.

As for "vulgo" or "vel" names: Most of these came about when somebody with an established family name took over a farm with a farm name. That happened usually either by marrying the inheriting daughter or by purchase. For instance one of my ancestors, Jan Wawra (Wawra-2), bought a farm in 1701 from one Jan Klabauch and from then on was known as Jan Klabauch. This was a strait forward change of name that stuck. But quite often that did not happen and people were known by both their original family name and the farm name. In those cases they were often recorded as "x vulgo y". But your hunch is right, it was entirely up to the knowledge of the record taker and many families ended up with records naming them "x", "y", "x vulgo y", or "y vulgo x". If the dual naming persisted you would later encounter fixed combinations, I have people in my family with "x v. y" as family name consistently in all records, from birth/baptism through marriage, address registrations, and as mothers of their children and death. That's one of the reasons I don't like uniform rules when they deviate from what is in the primary records.
George, I would read the name as Trütsch myself based on the same observations you cited. That's why I only said it's a hunch. But here is what I base this hunch on: The parish records for Budweis which until 1785 was responsible for both Libnitsch and Jelmo have not a single entry for Trütsch for the entire parish; Niemecz translates to Deutsch in German, Teutsch is a common alternative spelling for the time period; Alternating between Czech and German forms of a family name is quite common for the time period; Somebody looked up the baptismal record of the bride and given their handwriting and/or the quantities of mass wine around Niemecz became Teutsch and Teutsch became Trütsch.
Helmut, thanks for the explanation for Vulgo.  One of my ancestors that immigrated to America in 1865 shared a family document stating her maiden name was Harazim.  When I look at the birth records they were Janda y Harazim.  I researched quite a few Seigniorial Registers that showed that Mr. harazim died and the widows new husband, Janda, took the Harazim surname.  My great aunt and living relatives still use their vulgo surname, Jasan.  What are your thoughts on Janda neb Harazim?  Does "neb" (alias?) usually mean it's the vulgo name?
Helmut

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I can see the logic here.

George

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