Unable to search for a Spanish profile with two surnames in it

Question

Hello All,

In Spanish (at least in Spain, guess it is same in Latin America but I do not know for sure and for how long it has been this way) two surnames are often used, even sometimes you may be asked something like "how many of your surnames could you remember? Four? Eight?" which makes little sense if wives change to husband's surname, so each family has a "unique" family name.

So here people have their own name formed as "Given_name + Father's_surname + Mother's_surname" and you can "make up" a list of your first N surnames in order.

Legally nowadays in Spain you can choose if Father's or Mother's surname goes first, but traditionally it has been always Father's.

This fact hasn't in my opinion a clear solution in Wikitree. I searched for guidance but I couldn't find anything as a clear and useful guide. Probably there is some but I must have missed it.

The point is I am adding my own ancestor using their first (Father's) surname only as "Last Name at birth", and using the field "Other Last Name(s)" to store the two of them (when I know both of course).

Having both options (using one or two surnames) makes much more likely for "duplicates" to be created, which is what I have just seen (the word "suffered" seems a bit exagerated ;). An ancestor of mine is "Cristobal Mendaza Guileta", born in 1717,  who I added with "Mendaza-9" ID.

Only later I have found another profile for exactly the same person created before mine, "Mendaza_Guileta-1". This one uses both surnames as "Last Name at birth" which is as a good option (or better) than the one I am following.

The problem is, when I try to search for any profile like "Mendaza*" I don't get the "Mendaza_Guileta-1" record at all, I am only able to get it when I search for "Mendaza Guileta"....why might the wildcard not work in this case? Is this a tech bug of the search engine? Is there any workaround to make it possible to search and find at the same time both profiles?

"Mendaza-9"

"Mendaza_Guileta-1"

If I was able to find both at a time, it would be more difficult to make the same mistake again and insert a profile for a person who is already in the WikiTree.

Thanks and Happy New Year to all of you genealogists all-over-the-world,

Aitor Pipaon

Comments

Hello Aitor.

Mendaza_Guileta-1 doesn't come up when searching for "First Name = Cristobal" and "Last Name = Mendaza_*" because of the "h" in Christobal Mendaza Guileta.

Enter in the search form "First Name = C_*ristobal" (adding a "_*" between the "C" and the "r") and "Last Name = Mendaza_*" and both profiles will come up.

Answer 1

Searching for  "Last Name = Mendaza_*", the "Mendaza Genealogy" page is shown.

To get the list of WikiTree profiles with LNAB beginning with "Mendaza" (Mendaza_*), enter a "_*" (only this character) in the "First Name" field. A list with 19 names will come up.

Comments

Hello,

Thanks a lot, that was exactly the point. I was just leaving blank the First Name field, assuming it would mean the same as filling it with *. I had not realized that both options work differently and I was getting the "Mendaza genealogy" instead of all the names containing "Mendaza". I would say that for a person used to SQL and database management, it may not be evident, but it works fine and as it is designed to, so nothing to argue. Thanks (again ;-) Rubén. Now I will be able to search for profiles prior to creating them in a more comprehensive way,

My Best,

Aitor.-

---

You are welcome, Aitor.

Answer 2

Hi Aitor,

I have family in Key West that baffled me and the census takers in the 1800's lol. everyone had a different last name: Valdez, Velasco, Velasco Y Valdez or Valdez de Velasco. I just used what ever they personally were known as.

A friend showed me her marriage certificate from Puerto Rico 1950's, Maria Torres married Joe Morales. After the marriage the names appeared as follows Joe Morales y(and) Torres and Maria Torres de (of) Morales. She said that that was the formal legal identity.

She explained the husband added "and" the wife's name and the wife added "of" the husband, as in property of the husband. When they got to NYC she just went by Maria Morales.

hope that helped

https://blog.myheritage.com/2011/07/spanish-naming-conventions-%E2%80%93-part-1-the-basics/#:~:text=Surnames,)%2C%20the%20mother's%20first%20surname.

Comments

Hello Dawne,

Thanks for sharing your inputs. Yes, the management of surnames is not precisely obvious in these cases.

I remember my parents had "visit cards" about 35 years ago where my Mom was named "Carmen Vazquez de Pipaon", following my Father's name and because of it (She was only "Carmen Vazquez"), I understand it was a kind of formal way to express that she was "Pipaon's wife" (with a sense of property as you mentioned) and I would say that at least in Spain this habit is now completely obsolete. By the way I have never seen here anything similar in the opposite direction, like "changing" the husband's name due to marrying, as you mentioned.

Nonetheless, this did not mean that she had taken by any means "Vazquez de Pipaon" or "Pipaon" at all as her last name or part of it. This could be a misinterpretation by whoever could have read one of those old visit cards if they would not know the context.

Her "first surname" was during her whole life, after and before marriage, "Vazquez", and I would say that the formal way "Vazquez de Pipaon" was just something you could read only in visit cards, never in any "real" document or anywhere else. It would have been absurd and "illegal" because that was not her surname.

Of course this may have changed across time and space (America vs. Spain), and the examples you added have the difference that they happened in the US if I understood correctly, I mean in a total or partial English speaking environment, so maybe the way to manage surnames might have been different there.

The point here and now in Spain is, we don't have anything we can refer to as a "Family name", I mean families don't have a "name", people do. So you might refer to a family informally as "Los Lopez Mendieta" concatenating husband's and wife's surnames, and that is in fact quite common, that sort of "Family name" would match that family children's first and second surnames, but none of the parents is really a "Lopez Mendieta", the Father will be Lopez-Whatever and the Mother Mendieta-Whatever-Else. Of course I am simplifying it to the classic family model formed by Father+Mother+children. But even focused on it, this is why I say it is not really a "Family name", because not all members of that family, especially the ones who formed it, have that name. In an official document, for example, you will never be asked about family names, only persons' names, one by one.

We sometimes use only our "first surname" and sometimes use both "first and second surnames", but they are two different surnames, not a composite one. That is a different thing that also can happen, especially when analyzing older records for genealogy purposes.

From "third surname" onwards, it is only used to show "how many of your surnames are you able to say...", but never used in real life.

Thanks again,

Aitor Pipaon Vazquez (or just "Aitor Pipaon").-

Answer 3

If I understand correctly, what you really want to know is "how do I search for someone on Wikitree when I don't know how their name is listed?" One simple method is to search using Google: enter Wikitree followed by the name as you know it. I tried Wikitree Christobal Mendaza and got Mendaza-9.  I tried Wikitree Christobal Guileta and again got Mendaza-9.

For what it's worth, my ancestor was born in Spain but ended up in New France (Canada) with a French name and a "dit" name: Andre Robidou dit l'Espagnol (Andre Robidou, "known as the Spaniard." Google located him as both Andre Robidou and Andre Espagnol.

I hope this helps. Good luck!