Geoffrey IV and V Plantaganet - the same person or different

Question

Was looking up Geoffrey and found that even away from wikitree there are numerous entries for both a G IV P and a G V P that appear to be the same person.... Same father, mother, date of birth

 

might it be due to the numbering refer to different tiltes and the page only references one of them, or are they actually different people

 

Thanks

Andrew

Answer 1

Geoffrey Plantagenet is sometimes referred to as Geoffrey IV of Anjou and sometimes as Geoffrey V of Anjou.

I think the different numbering has to do with there being another Geoffrey IV of Anjou, (uncle of Geoffrey Plantagenet) who either ruled Anjou as co-ruler with his father Fulk IV or as a rival to him.  Either way he died before his father and often co-rulers aren't given a number unless they succeed in their own right.  For instance, Henry, the son of Henry II who was made a co-ruler with his father and died before him is always referred to as Henry the Young King, never as Henry III.

There is an Wikipedia article about Geoffrey IV here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_IV,_Count_of_Anjou

If there is confusion about which one is which, then compare the birth and death dates.

PS I think it is more common to see Geoffrey Plantagenet referred to as Geoffrey V

Answer 2

These numbers are a menace because they invite bad merges.  They weren't used at the time, they're only added by modern historians, but different writers use different schemes.  Then they all get imported into WikiTree and merged up by the numbers.

Eg looking at the change log on Fulk IV [[Anjou-46]], he's had several kings of Jerusalem merged into him, although that was actually his son.  Presumably because some people were showing the son as Fulk IV, although others call him Fulk V.

One of his ancestors was Geoffrey II of Gatinais, but some people call him Geoffrey III.  His son was Geoffrey III of Anjou.  It's a minefield.

Then there were the Ralph Cromwells, 1 to 6.  Then they discovered an earlier one, and then another before that, with inevitable results.