Hit a brick wall. Looking for unknown Butcher and unknown spouse

Question

Looking for an unknown Butcher and unknown spouse.

Unknown Butcher

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/GHYB-F4S

Unknown spouse

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/GHBX-3DT

I have very little info about them. All I know is there is at least one son. John B Butcher

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/27936874/john-b.-butcher
 

The parents are NOT Oliver and Elizabeth I know this because Oliver and Elizabeth are parents for a pastor John Wesley Butcher.

https://ancestors.familysearch.org/en/L7NF-QK7/reverend-john-wesley-butcher-1861-1950

The parents are NOT John and Christina from England I know this because Christina was born way too early to be John B Butcher's father. Also different family entirely.

Comments

Based on the findagrave citation perhaps the best approach would be to contact the appropriate county or state office in Arkansas for death a certificate. This may name his parents. If the Arkansas counties keep the death records, the best place to start would be the county he died in. You likely would have to pay for a county to do a search. FamilySearch came up negative for a death record as did Ancestry. Ancestry has a death index for Arkansas that includes 1929, there are only 11 Butchers, and none of them could be mistaken for John B. Butcher. I found nothing to indicate how complete this index is. Ancestry notes it took a long time, three decades, before there was full compliance with the requirement. If this index is complete there would be no value in contacting the county.

Local newspapers may have an obituary or death notice.

A local genealogical society may be helpful.

Probate records may exist, but unless he was still due something from his father’s estate it is unlikely his parentage would be mentioned.

Answer 1

John Benjamin Butcher, marriage 17 Feb 1890 at Eastham, Cheshire, England

John is 26 yrs old and his father is George Butcher. John's spouse is Christina Cliffe and her father is Robert Cliffe.

Comments

That's why I was having such trouble! Census records all said that his parents were from Missouri. So whoever was answering the census questions those years must not have known.

This is amazing! How did you find it?

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Frank is just that good. :)

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There was only one John Ben Butcher AKA John Benjamin Butcher found a familysearch.org , so it turned out to be the person you were looking for.

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Looks to be a different family, as the "Missouri" John Ben married Lara Row/Rowe.

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It's the wrong family. Inputting the names from what was given has resulted in contradictions. For one, Christina Cliffe was born a year after John B. Butcher was and is supposed to be his mother.

Answer 2

John Benjamin Butcher and his wife, Christina had their son, Robert George Butcher Christened on 8 Nov 1895 at Eastham, Cheshire, England.

The couple had daughter, Harriet May Butcher Christened 8 Nov 1895 at Eastham, Cheshire, England. Earlier, their daughter Lottie Jane Butcher was Christened 14 Dec 1890 at St Andrew, Bebington, Cheshire, England. Daughter Christina Victoria Butcher was Christened 29 Aug 1897 at St Andrew, Bebington, Cheshire, England. She was born 20 May.

Comments

Different family.  Missouri John Ben was having children in the United States :

Lottie Butcher 1893, Missouri–?

Ethel Butcher 1896, Missouri–?

Burtle Butcher 1898, Missouri–1980, California

Mattie Lonas Butcher 1902, Missouri–1988, Missouri

Luther Herman Butcher 1903, Louisiana–1964, Louisiana

Letha Mae Butcher 1904, Louisiana–1971, Louisiana

Oscar Butcher 1907, Louisiana–1987, Arkansas

Lois Butcher 1911, Arkansas–1986, Arkansas

Mildred Butcher 1914, Louisiana–1988, Arkansas

Ruby Darlene Butcher 1917, Louisiana–1999, Oklahoma

Johnnie Ben Butcher 1919, Louisiana–1994

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For sure a different family. The findagrave for the son of the unknown Butcher is here:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/27936874/john-b.-butcher

Christina Cliffe was born too early to be John B Butcher's mother. Also the marriage is far later than his birthdate.

Answer 3

I think Oliver Yancy Butcher was his father

findagrave ID 23978757

Comments

Melanie it has John B place of birth as Donelson. There the History channel has "the battle of fort Donelson" it maybe why John B moved.

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Looked up the battle of fort Donelson. The battle was in 1862. 4 years before John B Butcher was born in 1866 assuming that the date on his gravestone is correct. Looking at the two census records of the certain John B. Butcher, it's estimated that he was born in 1865 in one record then 1864 in another. Since the family appears to have fled to Louisiana/Arkansas, that would explain the lack of census records. The area was under control of the confederacy!

But you've given me a major, major lead with this battle. It's quite possible that a confederate soldier had the last name Butcher and was fighting there. Going by the census records, assuming they are close to his age, it's entirely possible that John B Butcher had no idea where his family came from and just assumed his parents were born in Missouri.

That however doesn't explain the lack of records in the 1900 census. In 1910 John Butcher and Laura Rowe were listed as being married for 19 years (looking at the record it's possibly 17 due to an ink blot.) There should be a John Butcher, Laura/Mira Butcher, Lottie Butcher, Ethel M Butcher, and Burtle/Myrtle Butcher all together at some point during the 1900 census. Yet they are nowhere to be found.

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It's also possible that John Butcher fought in WW1. He would have been about 48 when it started, but he was also a blacksmith so he could have stayed behind to make parts for the war effort. There isn't a draft card issued to him, but he could have also signed up for it instead of being drafted.

I came across this issue with Jessie Wylie Smith, Burtle Butcher's spouse. There was absolutely zero record of him dying. However, a Jessie W Smith was a passenger on a ship used in the war. It was decommissioned after the war, so Jessie didn't die there. But the approximate death date did give me a clue that helped me find Jessie on that ship which in turn gave me his father's name (Letticia or a variation of the spelling which I thought was weird at first until I saw Letticia's mom was named Leticia.)

Unfortunately with John Butcher I'm not having as much luck. I haven't been able to find him listed on any ship or any muster rolls so far. But if he died in one of the wars or became MIA, it would explain the lack of death records.

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Paul, all you can do is keep plugging away.  If it is possible to contact government, or council, or whatever, entities with records, you might think about doing that.  It is always possible, given the difference already with spelling of names, that they are recorded under a spelling not yet considered.

Don't forget, Laura/Mira is also recorded as Lara.  Perhaps try looking for a Sara, given the way some folk rendered their letters.  

Ethel might be enumerated as Mxxxx whatever the M was for. Burtle/Myrtle might be Birtie, Bertie, Bertle, or some other variation.

John Ben night be written up as Ben J, or Benjamin (although his name does not appear to have been Benjamin, but straight-up Ben).

Look for Bucher, or Bulcher; Bacher, or Batcher.  Even try Butler.

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I might also look for Johnnie because on one record the son John B Butcher Jr is named Johnnie Butcher.

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I found him in the 1870 census! I attached the source to familysearch.

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/sources/KC2Q-YMM

The reason why I wasn't able to find him is because ancestry had made an error when spelling the name to where it wasn't anything like Butcher. Additionally, whoever wrote John's name made it John N Butcher. Since the letter N sounds a lot like Ben, it's reasonable to conclude that whoever heard his name (he couldn't write it since he was 4) thought his middle initial was N.

There is only one other Butcher in this record. An Elizabeth Butcher who is about 25 years old. So perhaps John's mother is named Elizabeth after all. But I know it's not the Elizabeth who fathered John Wesley Butcher. It unfortunately doesn't explain exactly what the relationship Elizabeth has with John Butcher. Could be a mother, could be an aunt, could be a sibling. In any case, the knowledge of a Civil War battle fought where John was born gave me the clue I needed to at least find a record of him when he was young.

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You missed the James A Butcher, 0 years old, with Elizabeth and John.  So, IF this is the right John, it is likely he had at least one sibling.

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Rechecked. It DOES have that the relationship in the census record is inferred child. There's also a sibling of John B Butcher (again misspelled horribly in ancestry.) So now I've got a mother and I've got a sibling. Searching a little more and I'll be able to break this brick wall.

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Ah yes James A Butcher is the one I found. You noticed the same thing I did!

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It gives something else to look for in 1880, and 1900.

Don't get stuck on John B, or John Ben, because we already know he was enumerated at least once as John W (not the OTHER John W, though).

I have seen V in place of N, N in place of W, W in place of V.  It seems to depend on (1) the enumerator writing what they think they heard (b) the person giving the information only guessing because they didn't know, or (iii) the person giving the information deliberately "fudging" things (usually dates, or places, but sometimes names). There could, of course, be other reasons as well.