Comments on Hopestill Brown Sr., NOYES & HAYNES

Question

G2G, can somebody who knows these families review my comment and suggestions on this profile?

We have at least 3 wrong dates, for 2 deaths and a marriage. One of the affected people is the probably-villainous Rev. Samuel Parris, from the Salem Village witchunt fiasco, and owner of enslaved Tituba... all notables. So, we should get this right. 

Respectfully, 

Your cousin somehow (but not lineal for these folks, just their 1st cousin)

On 10 Mar 2021 Isaac Taylor wrote on Brown-8595:

His wife Abby Haynes died in the 1690s too... not 1737 as given on her profile. Else, her widower Brown (this man) wouldn't have remarried to Dorothy Parris. Then, this man must have died about 1697/8 given Dorothy remarries in 1698/9 and has a kid with Parris by 1700. Does that make sense? Check it out. It's complicated but I think this is deductively valid even without looking at the source material. The issue, surely, is the Sr/Jr name confusion moving dates to wrong generations; and the presence of both maidens and goodies with same name in the record book etc. Note also the orphaned/step-children marry. This makes more sense with sudden death of both first-marriage parents (Brown-Haynes) in the late 1690s; so Dorothy obviously takes in her surviving stepson Hopestill Jr (b.1691), who eventually marries her daughter from 2nd marriage to Parris. They would have all been living at 196 Old Connecticut in Wayland, which Thoreau wrote had the most beautiful American Chestnut trees he'd ever seen. And he'd seen a lot.

Comments

Here is their home in Wayland:

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/196+Old+Connecticut+Path,+Wayland,+MA/Blueberry+Ct,+Stow,+MA+01775/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/196-Old-Connecticut-Path-Wayland-MA-01778/57124601_zpid/

As I recall (but don't quote me on this) there is a potentially-scandalous revisited history with Noyes & Rev. Parris both having a bothersome connection to land surveying (via Danforth and the other Noyes, Nicholas?) in Salem Village and Sudbury; and their neighbors being accused of witchcraft and/or dying suddenly for whatever reason. This Rev. Parris is the one, I think, preaching about how he needed better candlesticks and a bigger house-- the enemy of Proctor etc.

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Just remove Dorothy Parris as a wife and it all makes sense.

Answer 1

The profile is completely combining Hopestill Brown Sr with his son Hopestill Brown Jr.

Hopestill Brown Sr. never married Dorothy Parris - his son Hopestill Brown Jr. did. I have disconnected her.

Hopestill Brown Sr. did not die 11 December 1729 - his son Hopestill Brown Jr. did. I have removed the date.

Comments

Hopestill Brown Sr died after his son on 2 January 1736/7 leaving a will naming among others his wife Abigail, son Edmond, son Josiah, grandchildren Samuel and Hopestill under age 21 (sons of Hopestill Jr), grandfather Besbridges(?), daughter Sarah Brown, (I believe their are more heirs in here, but I didn't read the will line by line.)

Probate 28 February 1736/7

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Abigail definitely survived her husband and was the administrator of his will along with Josiah.

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Thank you, Joe.

To clarify, Rev. Samuel Parris married Dorothy NOYES (as his second wife) at which point she was called Dorothy Parris. This makes the Parris kids (called Noyes, Dorothy, Mary, and Samuel) all 1/2 Noyes by blood. This remains important.

Because, even disconnecting her (Dorothy Noyes m. Parris) from her non-husband Brown (thank you for that!) doesn't resolve the cousin-marriage issue between her child Dorothy Parris and Hopestill Brown Jr-- who is himself the grandson of Elizabeth NOYES, mother of Abby Haynes. (Elizabeth Noyes is the sister of Peter Noyes of Wayland, father of Dorothy Noyes above.)

Capitalizing the nearest Noyes ancestor of the resulting children, Samuel & Hopestill Brown, whose pedigree table here is consanguine:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Brown-64197

Is this evidence something unusual happened, of which there is no record? Or is it a hint there is still some logical flaw in our genealogy. Even removing the non-marriage between Dorothy Noyes and Hopestill Brown Sr., doesn't address the fact Hopestill Brown III was in-bred.

How unusual would it have been at that time/place for a mother -- Abigail Haynes --  to allow her son to marry the daughter of her 1st cousin? As you have clarified, Abigail was alive at the time.

This actually made MORE sense to me if there were step-orphans marrying, after some disease or tragedy shattered the family. It makes less sense to me now, if there's a 1/2 Noyes matriarch presiding over a family inter-marriage, in Puritan New England-- especially 20 years after the bride's father, Rev. Parris had become a controversial figure.

It's just a very weird choice for a match. Isn't it?

Why would the church even allow it?

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Looking at the Noyes ancestry, I am not really happy with it.  I think we need to prove each step.

To start, how do you know the wife of Samuel Parris is Dorothy Noyes outside of a brief statement written in a 1904 book?

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Got it.  From the probate of her brother in London.

• Peter Noyes of Sudbury , N.E. , now bound to sea , dated 10 Jan 1698 . I leave to the town of Sudbury all my houses , lands and mills known as New Mill with uplands meadows in the hands of John Sheers and Richard Graves for the use of the poor for ever . £ 10 each to John and Peter Haines . £ 20 to my cousin Mary Noyes. The residue of my estate to my four sisters Mary Mountjoy , Dorothy Noyes , Sarah Noyes and Esther Noyes who are to be my exexs . Wits : James Sherman , Joseph Noyes and John Parmeter . AWW 10 Scp 1699 to William and John Crouch, attornies for sisters Mary Mountjoy , Dorothy , wife of Samuel Parris , Sarah , wife of Thomas Frinck , and Ester Noyes , all in New England . ( PROB11 / 452 / 149 ) .

It appears to me that we can say Dorothy and Samuel Parris married between when the will was made and she was called Dorothy Noyes and when it was probabted and she was called Dorothy Parris.

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I think we can confidently say the Noyes lines of Samuel and Hopestill Brown are both good.  I am not bothered by the consanguinity.  Their parents were second cousins sharing a great-grandparent born more than 100 years before them. My guess is they didn't know or didn't care.

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No, Joe. According to our pedigree here on WikiTree, the parents of Hopestill Brown Sr (1691-1729) and his wife Dorothy Parris (1700-1724), were themselves 1st cousins, not 2nd cousins; i.e. they shared a grandparent-- not a great-grandparent.

Hopestill Brown's mother Abigail Haynes is the daughter of Elizabeth Noyes (1625 >1669), daughter of Peter Noyes Sr (<1590-1657).

Dorothy Parris's mother Dorothy Noyes is the daughter of Peter Noyes Jr (~1630 <1674), son of same Peter Noyes Sr (<1590-1657).

Put another way, two living mothers who were 1st cousins would have watched their children marry; and that union begat Hopestill Brown Jr.

Was this normal, then and there? The marriage at 3 degrees would have been prohibited in the old country, and needed a (readily buy-able) papal dispensation etc, not long before. The child is his own 1st cousin, albeit twice removed.

I'm not an expert on Puritan normals; I defer to you. I'm aware of many such marriages in Acadia and in colonial New Netherland etc, but I am not aware of very many in colonial Mass, this close. But again, not an expert... only have my own (mega) family tree to go on.

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Hopestill Brown JR and Dorothy Parris married and were second cousins, sharing a great-grandfather Peter Noyes (1590-1657).

You are thinking of this like a medieval case. Was it usual for second cousins to marry? No, but certainly not unheard of.  This does not even give me pause in this time period. There was no strict religious prohibition.  They certainly did not need a papal dispensation, as they were not Catholic.