Need Swedish marriage record translation help. [closed]

Question

Hello,

I think brothers married sisters (my g-aunts) and their banns were the same days, but I can not understand everything written in these boxes.

I looked up “ut supra” so I know that they had their banns the same days, but where is the marriage date? What does it say in the boxes between their names and the morgongåva? I am assuming the numbers at the end of each row are the Lod given?

Ramsberg, E I/1 (1736-1774), bildid: C0001198_00030, page 38 https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0001198_00030

I appreciate any help. Thank you!

Missy 

Answer 1

Unfortunately, the date of marriage is missing and it usually does not coincide with the third bann.

However, since the groom usually paid some fee to the church at the day of the marriage, it can be worthwhile to check the church accounting records (kyrkoräkenskaper). In this case, the accounting records are excellent and not only tells us the date, but also that they were married at home (as opposed to being married in the church).

Ramsbergs kyrkoarkiv, Räkenskaper för kyrka och församling, SE/ULA/11259/L I a/5 (1753-1770), sida 89, https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0001206_00059#?c=&m=&s=&cv=58&xywh=-12%2C2933%2C2585%2C1442

Octobr. 24. Dom. XIX. p. Trin. 

[...]

Noch: Har Brudg. Anders Staffansson,
fr. Östra Kloten, betalt Kyrkans
Brudestolar, och d. nya beklädning - - 2

it. Brodren och Brudg. Johan D:o
för Hem(m)a-wigslen erlagt - - 6

På samma Bröllop blefwo, för
Socknens Almoso-hion, sam-
manskutne, in alles - - 20

Comments

Hej Joakim,

You are wonderful!! Thank you for checking the records for me. I do not ask enough questions about Swedish records, but I need to. I just learned something new! I bolded what does not make sense to me (below).

This is how google translated the above information:

”Still: Her Brudg. Anders Staffansson, fr. Östra Kloten, paid for by the Church Bridal chairs, and d. New clothing”

The second paragraph did not translate.

“At the same wedding, for the Almoso-hion of the Parish, were put together, in all”

I appreciate all your help.

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The second paragraph says (I think) "Also (It(em)) the brother and groom Johan (ditto) Staffansson Östra Kloten for home wedding paid - 6"

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Thank you, Leif. Have you ever seen “Almoso-hion (of the parish)” before? Any ideas? Thank you, again!

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Allmosor is alms = charity
Hjon in this context is pauper (fattighjon)

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And a Google image search for "brudstol".

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Oh, WOW...I said out loud.  They are amazingly beautiful!  Thank you for putting images to the name. I would love to include a photo of one on this profile, because that is the first mention I have seen of any of my ancestors having such amazing chairs for their wedding. Would that be appropriate or unnecessary? Thank you again. 

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I think they had them in every church - I just never think much about those things ;-)

The first image was from Wikimedia Commons and should be free to use. I think it's quite OK to use images of details like this as a spice now and then - I do it when I'm wowed by something.

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Ok, they borrowed wedding chairs from the church to use in their wedding at home. (I never saw this before now in my Swedish research.) This is so neat to learn!

however, I do not understand why they had “new clothing” from the church. Does that mean the couple(s) borrowed their wedding clothes from the church?

Thank you, everyone! I am learning a lot of new things.

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Paying for the loan of the wedding benches probably makes sense. As for the "nya beklädning", don't trust Google. It refers to something about the Brudestolar. New cushions, perhaps?

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Ok, thank you for explaining, Eva. So they rented the benches, not “borrowed.”

Answer 2

Hi,

The two columns after the names are "hemvist" (where they live) and if they have the right to marry (not related etc).

Marriage 18 says

they live / will live at: Östra Kloten

they may marry: "å bägge sidor fria och hinderslösa".

Without local knowledge I find it more difficult to read the place names for marriage 19.

As I understand it, the wedding date is not mentioned, if it does not coincide with the third bann? There are other members who would know, I'm just guessing 

Comments

One of the gentlemen might know about the marriage date i cases like this.

I can add that in this case it's not the morgongåva in the last column but the Charta Sigillata - a fee. To the state... I think. My bad: I tend to ignore that sort of thing.

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Tack så mycket, Maria and Eva. The sisters are from Västra Löa. The one couple stayed on the sisters’ father’s farm and the other moved to where the brothers are from in Östra Kloten.

Should I just assume they married the same day?

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Since you asked about the texts in the boxes, it may be worth noting that the "freedom to marry" column of marriage 19 says "Ut supra; afwittrings-attest sees för Bruden, Litt H", where the latter part means that the inheritance after the late first husband of the bride had been distributed to their children. This had to be done before a widow or widower could remarry, since they didn't inherit their spouses and were only alowed to bring their own possessions into the new marriage.

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Hej Olov,

That is what I originally wanted to know, and I found out a lot more.

Tack så mycket.

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Olov,

Maria was 22 years when she married and the marriage only lasted 6 months when her first husband died. So it should be referring to Johan?

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No, the record clearly says "the bride" (and Johan is not presented as a widower, the way she is said to be a widow). However, it actually only says that she has presented the paperwork (attest) to show that the matter of inheritance (avvittring) has been properly handled. Usually this means distributed to the children, so I skipped a step in my explanation, sorry, but I guess in this case it went to somebody else. Unfortunately the note in question doesn't seem to have survived (the oldest records in Ramsberg H V Bilagor till lysnings- och vigselböckerna t o m 1967 are from 1815), but no matter who did get it -- or if there wasn't anything to inherit -- she needed to show the paperwork to be allowed to remarry.

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Ok. Thank you for explaining, Olov.