Comments on Peter White

Question

On NaN undefined NaN Darrel White Jr wrote on White-63879:

There is confusion of John White ID #15422 having 2 sons named Peter, so I found an unclaimed ID #19876 Peter White born 1508 that could be the actual father of Peter White ID #6697 born 1530 that could be the father of William White ID #63878. So much time between John & William, just maybe the 2 Peters are father and Son. Just wondering Darrel

Comments

Hi Darrel, I've added some extra tags to this question to see if there might be more response.

Answer 1

Hi Darrel, because most of these profiles don't have sources, it's impossible to say whether any of the birth and death dates can be confirmed.

It would be very unusual in this time frame, to have John White, born in Herefordshire and died in Peterborough, Cambridgeshire (?) with a son Peter born in Ireland, and grandson, William born and died in Wiltshire, except without sources, again, we can't confirm that these locations are correct.

I would think the first step would be to find some sources for these profiles and given they are all pre-1700 they need to be considered reliable sources. 

Comments

Rev. Peter White was born about 1530 - location Unknown but presumably in England -  was named a Fellow at Oriel College Oxford in 1551 (fl. 1551) and received an MA there in 1555.  The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography has an article on him but, alas, I do not have access.  He did go on to become Dean of Waterford Cathedral in English-ruled Ireland.  Whilst there he refused to accept Queen Elizabeth I's changes to Anglican Church rules & requirements, sticking to traditional liturgy, but he was not considered an "openly rebellious" (i.e., Roman Catholic) clergymen so apparently he was simply "removed" from his Deanship ca. 1570 and returned to England.

It is extremely-unlikely he was the ancestor of the White family that emigrated 60 years later to Virginia but that is what is claimed both on Ancestry.com and MyHeritage and also WikiTree (White-6697).  Complicating matters are several Peter White profiles that claim he died ca. 1582 in "Petersboro, Brockman, England" (or Petersboro, Brockman, Hertfordshire, England).  There is NO such place, alas.

White is a quite-common English-language name and so are male given names Peter, John, William - the main ones connected to these sets of profiles.

Anyone who has English research capabilities is kindly asked to help with whatever sources can be found to

1) Separate Rev. Peter White, Waterford Dean from whoever was the father of William White-4125, ancestor of the Colonial Virginia White family,  or

2) Demonstrate that Peter White, Waterford Dean, did in fact father William White (perhaps after his "disgrace" ?) etc.

Thank you in advance!

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I’ve done some research on Peter White, the Happy Schoolmaster of Munster, and he had no offspring. I found a John White who is the son of another Peter White, vicar of St. Neots, Huntingdonshire, born in 1570.

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ODNB entry (written by Colm Lennon) says he was born in Waterford (Ireland, obviously) at an unknown date. It also says he was a school teacher in Kilkenny (at a grammar school established by Piers Butler) before being appointed Dean. Says he was removed because of his recusancy. It also says it’s not known exactly when he died, but Ware puts the date near the end of Elizabeth’s reign. No wife or children mentioned.

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Thank you, Catherine - do you have a Source for that information that the Peter White of Munster, Ireland, did not have children, which you can add to this G2G or send me privately (Snow-2128) ?

Thank you, L. Felix for the resume/summary of that Oxford Biography article - any chance you can copy it and send to me privately ?  send me a message for my e-mail.  Thanks!

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I’m so sorry, I don’t remember where I found that information as it was several years ago and once I discovered he never married nor had children, I stopped saving data on him as I was searching for my Whites ancestors and he is not one of them.

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You can't really be sure that because White was a Catholic clergyman he had no children, I'm afraid. Religious identification and commitment at this stage in Irish history was very messy and confused. The obvious example is the Bishop Patrick Walsh mentioned in the bio of White. His is delightfully described in the Dictionary of Irish Biography as 'Church of Ireland and Roman Catholic bishop of Waterford and Lismore'. Yes, he was a Catholic bishop under Mary; no, as far as we are aware he was not married; but he certainly had children, as his son Nicholas became a clearly Protestant bishop.

That said, the rejection of the English spouse for White is clearly correct.

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I don’t think it’s inferred that simply because of Catholicism, Peter White can be ruled out as a father. As far as I can see, there is no family attached to Peter White because there is no evidence of any. A difference between White and Patrick Walsh.

The ideological differences between White and Walsh suggest they probably didn’t follow the same lifestyles. But as you say, we can never be sure; we can only go on available evidence.

(The Dictionary of Irish Biography does mention that Patrick Walsh appears to have married the mother of his children. Obviously after Queen Mary popped her clogs!)

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I think we are agreed on this.  No evidence he had children, but can't be ruled out. 

Only comment I would add is that the reason I came to this thread was to try to see whether I could place the Stephen White who is a foundation scholar of Trinity College Dublin, and the Stephen White, Professor of Theology (unusual title) who was presented to the Treasurership of Waterford Cathedral in 1604. There is the further tantalising reference to a Stephen White who was a sizar at Emmanuel College Cambridge,1589-93, who does not appear to have a career in the English church (not in CCEd). It is claimed by Edmund Hogan (Distinguished Irishmen, 41) that the Trinity scholar was the same as the Clonmel Jesuit Stephen White, but I haven't seen any evidence for this, apart from the fact that it fits chronologically.  As usual with these things, you are left with bare names which you can't anchor in a genealogy.

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Gosh, I wish you good luck with that. Looking for Whites in that neck of the woods is no small task.