Smith nightmare part 2

+1 vote
Hi guys, I have confirmed the date of my Grandmothers birth, however, there are no names of parents or address on the copy that we have (no idea why).  I've tried every browser I can think of to find her, but there does not seem to be anyone of her name born on her date of birth anywhere in the UK.

I honestly don't know where to go next.  I have her death certificate, i can get hold of her birth certificate (the useless one).  I know her brother and sisters names (can't find them either) and I know her DOB, marriage and death date.  

How do I find her parents?  If anyone has any ideas of where I should try please tell me, Im getting very frustrated.

in Genealogy Help by Rachel Shaw G2G1 (1.1k points)

I'm very confused when you say there are no names or addresses on the birth certificate. Did you order a copy from It costs £7 for a downloadable PDF version.

It must give her mother's name and address - unless she was a foundling or something.

When you post a question there's a box for Wikitree profile. If you enter Smith-246305 it will create a link to Elsie Smith under your question.

I have the original birth certificate it states her name, dob and district/county and that is all.
I've never heard of this before. Could you upload an image of it to her profile?

Also could you provide details of her siblings?

The good news is that the 1921 census will be released in six months and you may be able to find her there.

I've uploaded the photo of the certificate onto her profile.

I only know that she had a brother, Sid who emigrated to Canada and a sister, Emily (Bunny) who lived in Harrogate at some stage I believe.

She talked about them loads when she was alive, but I was a teenager and it seems to have gone in one ear and out the other as the saying goes.
The certificate you have uploaded is a short birth certificate which only give the child's full name, sex, date and place of birth and is issued free of charge when a birth is first registered whereas the full birth certificate gives more information.

To obtain a copy of the full birth certificate you will need to contact either the General Register Office at and order online or you could contact the local (Gateshead) Register Office - from the information on the short certificate I would suggest that you order the birth certificate for -

Smith, Elsie; mother's maiden name Patterson; registered in the Gateshead district; Q2 1912; Volume 10a; page 2237


Based on the above information likely contenders for siblings :

GRO Reference: 1914  J Quarter in GATESHEAD  Volume 10A  Page 2387

GRO Reference: 1916  J Quarter in GATESHEAD  Volume 10A  Page 2080
GRO Reference: 1917  J Quarter in GATESHEAD  Volume 10A  Page 1598
There are three other Smith births registered in the Gateshead district with mother's maiden name of Patterson -

Smith, Sidney; Q2 1914; Gateshead district; volume 10a page 2387

Smith, Emily; Q2 1916; Gateshead district; volume 10a; page 2080

Smith, Muriel M; Q2 1917; Gateshead district; volume 10a; page 1598
Thank you thats a great help
Thank you, ill look into them
The birth citation on her profile for Newcastle, probably should be marked as "not hers", and placed above the sources beneath a == Research Notes == header, to avoid possible future confusion and conflation, and the biography text corrected to remove the Newcastle mention.

 (You also should fix the Biography header in your own biography, as it appears to have lost an equal sign (it should have two each side).)

4 Answers

0 votes
Elsie M Smith, England and Wales Birth Registration Index, 1837-2008

Born 1912 at Shifnal, Shropshire, England Oct-Nov-Dec qtr.

Mother's maiden name appears to be Rowlings
by Frank Gill G2G Astronaut (2.3m points)
She was born in Newcastle.
No, she was born in Winlaton, Gateshead I believe
0 votes
Shaw, England and Wales Marriage Registration Index, 1837-2005

Marriage Registration at Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland, England. Registration year 1933 quarter Jul-Aug-Sep

Elsie Smith married William C Shaw
by Frank Gill G2G Astronaut (2.3m points)
Yes I have her wedding certificate but it just gives mothers name as Smith and no other useful information
0 votes has this profile for her: , but it is your own info, I think.
by Kitty Smith G2G6 Pilot (560k points)

yes, this is my profile and all the info i have
0 votes

I've never seen an English birth certificate in that format before. Anyway I've cracked it now, it was the info that Elsie was born in Gateshead not Newcastle.

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: 
GRO Reference: 1912  J Quarter in GATESHEAD  Volume 10A  Page 2237

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: 
GRO Reference: 1914  J Quarter in GATESHEAD  Volume 10A  Page 2387

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: 
GRO Reference: 1916  J Quarter in GATESHEAD  Volume 10A  Page 2080
GRO Reference: 1917  J Quarter in GATESHEAD  Volume 10A  Page 1598

Muriel seems to have died in 1936.

"England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007," database, FamilySearch ( : 4 September 2014), Muriel M Smith, 1936; from "England & Wales Deaths, 1837-2006," database, findmypast ( : 2012); citing Death, Gateshead, Durham, England, General Register Office, Southport, England

by Matthew Fletcher G2G6 Pilot (108k points)

I see Melanie posted this information simultaneously. smiley

There are a few possibilities for the Smith parents but it's hard to verify any of them. I've checked the 1939 register but none of the children seem to be living at the parental home.

The simplest solution is to wait six months and find them in the 1921 census when it's released.

wait six months and find them in the 1921 census when it's released.


I await this (for a different family where I am roadblocked).  

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