Edward III Project: Gateway Ancestors - do you have one? (Round 3)

+27 votes
9.3k views

Gateway Descendants from Edward III
Round 1 Round 2

This is round three of an old G2G question.  Round one is here and two is here.  The idea here is to find new gateway ancestors.  If your ancestor already appears on the list below there is no need post the line.

Below is a list of 17th century new world immigrants with a recognized descent from Edward III, king of England. The list was kindly provided by Douglas Richardson, author of the Royal Ancestry series.  Links to all of them can be found on this page.

This list currently is 70 individuals representing 55 different families. Of the 70 individuals, 32 settled in the Southern Colonies, 27 in the New England Colonies, and 11 were part of the Quaker migration to the Middle Colonies.

Use the Relationship Finder to find if you have a direct connection to Edward III, king of England (Plantagenet-70). Does your gateway ancestor appear below?  If not, we will work to prove or disprove your connection.

Do you have a gateway ancestor from a population group other than American colonial immigrants (e.g. Australian, South African, European, etc.)? Post them here or in a separate G2G post and we will create new categories and new lists to track them. The line must be very well documented.

The List of 17th Century New World Immigrants

Barbara Aubrey, John Barclay, John Bevan, Essex Beville, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Elizabeth Bosvile, Mary Bourchier, George, Giles & Robert Brent, Stephen Bull, Charles Calvert, Edward Carleton, St. Leger Codd, Elizabeth & Thomas Coytemore, William Crymes, Humphrey Davie, Frances, Jane & Katherine Deighton, Edward Digges, Robert Drake, Rowland Ellis, John Fenwick, John Fisher, Henry Fleete, Edward Foliot, Muriel Gurdon, Elizabeth & John Harleston, Warham Horsmanden, Patrick Houston, Anne Humphrey, Mary Launce, Hannah, Samuel & Sarah Levis, Thomas Ligon, Nathaniel Littleton, Thomas Lloyd, Agnes Mackworth, Oliver Manwaring, Anne Mauleverer, Richard More, Joseph & Mary Need, John and Margaret Nelson, Philip & Thomas Nelson, Thomas Owsley, John Oxenbridge, Herbert Pelham, Robert Peyton, William & Elizabeth Pole, Henry & William Randolph, George Reade, William Rodney, Thomas Rudyard, Katherine Saint Leger, Richard Saltonstall, William Skepper, Mary Johanna Somerset, Samuel & William Torrey, Margaret Touteville, John West, Hawte Wyatt.

in Genealogy Help by Joe Cochoit G2G6 Pilot (226k points)

20th great grandson (Uncertain)

1. James is the son of [private father]DNA confirmed 
2. [Private] is the son of Lloyd Ward[unknown confidence] 
3. Lloyd is the son of Cecil O Ward (1899-1969) [unknown confidence] 
4. Cecil is the son of Gordon C. Ward (1862-1922) [unknown confidence] 
5. Gordon is the son of Robert J Ward (1834-1909) [unknown confidence] 
6. Robert is the son of Robert W. Ward Jr (1809-1892) [unknown confidence] 
7. Robert is the son of Robert Adam Ward (abt.1773-abt.1858) [unknown confidence] 
8. Robert is the son of Mildred (Adams) Ward (1754-abt.1794) [confident] 
9. Mildred is the daughter of Penelope Flournoy (Lynch) Adams (1734-1785)[unknown confidence] 
10. Penelope is the daughter of Sarah (Clark) Ward (1716-1792) [unknown confidence] 
11. Sarah is the daughter of Penelope (Johnson) Clark (abt.1684-aft.1754)[confident] 
12. Penelope is the daughter of Edward Johnson (abt.1638-abt.1704) [uncertain] 
13. Edward is the son of Barbara Gordon (abt.1600-1650) [uncertain] 
14. Barbara is the daughter of Margaret (Udny) Gordon (abt.1581-aft.1610)[uncertain] 
15. Margaret is the daughter of Matilda (Gordon) Udny (abt.1530-abt.1577)[uncertain] 
16. Matilda is the daughter of William Gordon (-1577) [unknown confidence] 
17. William is the son of Joanna (Stewart) Gordon (1461-1510) [unknown confidence] 
18. Joanna is the daughter of John (Stewart) Stewart of Balveny First Earl of Atholl (abt.1440-1512) [unknown confidence] 
19. John is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Queen Dowager of Scots (abt.1402-abt.1445) [confident] 
20. Joan is the daughter of John Beaufort KG (abt.1371-1410) [confident] 
21. John is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) [confident] 
22. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377)[confident] 
 

I didn’t see any of these on the list.

20th great grandson (Uncertain)

1. James is the son of [private father]DNA confirmed 
2. [Private] is the son of Lloyd Ward[unknown confidence] 
3. Lloyd is the son of Cecil O Ward (1899-1969) [unknown confidence] 
4. Cecil is the son of Gordon C. Ward (1862-1922) [unknown confidence] 
5. Gordon is the son of Robert J Ward (1834-1909) [unknown confidence] 
6. Robert is the son of Robert W. Ward Jr (1809-1892) [unknown confidence] 
7. Robert is the son of Robert Adam Ward (abt.1773-abt.1858) [unknown confidence] 
8. Robert is the son of Mildred (Adams) Ward (1754-abt.1794) [confident] 
9. Mildred is the daughter of Penelope Flournoy (Lynch) Adams (1734-1785)[unknown confidence] 
10. Penelope is the daughter of Sarah (Clark) Ward (1716-1792) [unknown confidence] 
11. Sarah is the daughter of Penelope (Johnson) Clark (abt.1684-aft.1754)[confident] 
12. Penelope is the daughter of Edward Johnson (abt.1638-abt.1704) [uncertain] 
13. Edward is the son of Barbara Gordon (abt.1600-1650) [uncertain] 
14. Barbara is the daughter of Margaret (Udny) Gordon (abt.1581-aft.1610)[uncertain] 
15. Margaret is the daughter of Matilda (Gordon) Udny (abt.1530-abt.1577)[uncertain] 
16. Matilda is the daughter of William Gordon (-1577) [unknown confidence] 
17. William is the son of Joanna (Stewart) Gordon (1461-1510) [unknown confidence] 
18. Joanna is the daughter of John (Stewart) Stewart of Balveny First Earl of Atholl (abt.1440-1512) [unknown confidence] 
19. John is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Queen Dowager of Scots (abt.1402-abt.1445) [confident] 
20. Joan is the daughter of John Beaufort KG (abt.1371-1410) [confident] 
21. John is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) [confident] 
22. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377)[confident] 
I didn’t see any of these on the list.

The ancestry of Edward Johnson is not accepted as being correct.

1. James is the son of [private father]DNA confirmed 
2. [Private] is the son of Lloyd Ward[unknown confidence] 
3. Lloyd is the son of Ester Gertrude (Armstrong) Ward (1899-1996) [unknown confidence] 
4. Ester is the daughter of Anabell (Rogers) Armstrong (1874-bef.1904)[unknown confidence] 
5. Anabell is the daughter of Barbara Ellen (Comer) Rogers (abt.1829-1902)[unknown confidence] 
6. Barbara is the daughter of Augustus Comer Jr. (1798-1888) [unknown confidence] 
7. Augustus is the son of Catherine (Rush) Comer (1758-1841) [unknown confidence] 
8. Catherine is the daughter of Lydia (Bell) Rush (abt.1748-1828) [unknown confidence] 
9. Lydia is the daughter of Nathaniel T. Bell II (1721-1800) [unknown confidence] 
10. Nathaniel is the son of Mary Scarborough (West) Bell (abt.1686-1767)[unknown confidence] 
11. Mary is the daughter of Anthony West (1662-) [unknown confidence] 
12. Anthony is the son of John West (1638-1703) [unknown confidence] 
13. John is the son of Ann Barlowe (Barloe) West (abt.1607-aft.1658)[confident] 
14. Ann is the daughter of Catherine West (1583-1650) [confident] 
15. Catherine is the daughter of Anne (Knollys) West (1555-abt.1633) [unknown confidence] 
16. Anne is the daughter of Catherine (Carey) Knollys (1524-1568) [confident] 
17. Catherine is the daughter of William Carey (abt.1491-1528) [confident] 
18. William is the son of Margaret (Spencer) Cary (1472-1536) [unknown confidence] 
19. Margaret is the daughter of Eleanor (Beaufort) Spencer (1431-1501) [unknown confidence] 
20. Eleanor is the daughter of Edmund Beaufort KG (abt.1406-1455) [unknown confidence] 
21. Edmund is the son of John Beaufort KG (abt.1371-1410) [unknown confidence] 
22. John is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) [confident] 
23. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377)[confident]  

This one?

1. James is the son of [private father]DNA confirmed 
2. [Private] is the son of Lloyd Ward[unknown confidence] 
3. Lloyd is the son of Ester Gertrude (Armstrong) Ward (1899-1996) [unknown confidence] 
4. Ester is the daughter of Anabell (Rogers) Armstrong (1874-bef.1904)[unknown confidence] 
5. Anabell is the daughter of Barbara Ellen (Comer) Rogers (abt.1829-1902)[unknown confidence] 
6. Barbara is the daughter of Augustus Comer Jr. (1798-1888) [unknown confidence] 
7. Augustus is the son of Catherine (Rush) Comer (1758-1841) [unknown confidence] 
8. Catherine is the daughter of Lydia (Bell) Rush (abt.1748-1828) [unknown confidence] 
9. Lydia is the daughter of Nathaniel T. Bell II (1721-1800) [unknown confidence] 
10. Nathaniel is the son of Mary Scarborough (West) Bell (abt.1686-1767)[unknown confidence] 
11. Mary is the daughter of Anthony West (1662-) [unknown confidence] 
12. Anthony is the son of John West (1638-1703) [unknown confidence] 
13. John is the son of Ann Barlowe (Barloe) West (abt.1607-aft.1658)[confident] 
14. Ann is the daughter of Catherine West (1583-1650) [confident] 
15. Catherine is the daughter of Anne (Knollys) West (1555-abt.1633) [unknown confidence] 
16. Anne is the daughter of Catherine (Carey) Knollys (1524-1568) [confident] 
17. Catherine is the daughter of William Carey (abt.1491-1528) [confident] 
18. William is the son of Margaret (Spencer) Cary (1472-1536) [unknown confidence] 
19. Margaret is the daughter of Eleanor (Beaufort) Spencer (1431-1501) [unknown confidence] 
20. Eleanor is the daughter of Edmund Beaufort KG (abt.1406-1455) [unknown confidence] 
21. Edmund is the son of John Beaufort KG (abt.1371-1410) [unknown confidence] 
22. John is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) [confident] 
23. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377)[confident]  This one?

Joe - Is the Edward III Project an official Wikitree Project? I couldn't find it in the list of projects. Also, do you plan on a sticker for Edward III gateway ancestors?
No, it is not an official project.  Though considering the size and interest, it probably should be.  I don't really know how to go about making it official. I am not a big fan of stickers and wasn't planning on it.

Alright! I'm trying this again:

20th great granddaughter

1. Lynden is the daughter of Charlene Sue (Iveson) Miles (1931-2013) DNA confirmed 
2. Charlene is the daughter of Charles Darius Iveson (1901-1942) [confident] 

3. Charles is the son of Lucie (Underwood) Iveson (1870-1932) [confident] 
4. Lucie is the daughter of Charles R Underwood (1822-1880) [confident] 
5. Charles is the son of John Underwood (1788-1851) [confident] 
6. John is the son of Elizabeth (Coggeshall) Underwood (1766-1809) [confident] 
7. Elizabeth is the daughter of Cornelius Coggeshall (1741-1765) [confident] 
8. Cornelius is the son of Elizabeth (Freeborn) Coggeshall (abt.1710-1775) [confident] 
9. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Nichols) Freeborn (1688-bef.1733) [confident] 
10. Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Nichols (abt.1642-1708) [unknown confidence] 
11. Thomas is the son of Edmond N Nichols (1616-1661) [unknown confidence] 
12. Edmond is the son of Cecil Turberville (abt.1600-abt.1661) [unknown confidence] 
13. Cecil is the daughter of Edmond Turberville (1556-1616) [unknown confidence] 
14. Edmond is the son of Elizabeth (Stradling) Turberville (abt.1534-aft.1570) [unknown confidence] 
15. Elizabeth is the daughter of Robert Stradling (abt.1498-aft.1570) [confident] 
16. Robert is the son of Edward Stradling (bef.1473-1535) [confident] 
17. Edward is the son of Thomas Stradling Esq (aft.1454-1480) [confident] 
18. Thomas is the son of Henry Stradling (abt.1412-1476) [confident] 
19. Henry is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Stradling (abt.1390-1479) [confident] 
20. Joan is the daughter of Henry Beaufort (abt.1374-1447) [confident] 
21. Henry is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) [confident] 
22. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) [confident] 

My father's side:

21st great granddaughter

1. Lynden is the daughter of Jack Edward Raber (1925-2009) [confident] 
2. Jack is the son of Lillian (Snodgrass) Raber (1903-1975) [confident] 
3. Lillian is the daughter of Alice Daisy (Buck) Snodgrass (1874-1969) [confident] 
4. Alice is the daughter of Andrew Jackson Buck (1831-1904) [confident] 
5. Andrew is the son of Sarah (Allen) Buck (1788-1872) [confident] 
6. Sarah is the daughter of Sarah Sally (Rhodes) Allen (1765-1841) [confident] 
7. Sarah is the daughter of Rosanna (Budlong) Rhodes (1742-1824) [confident] 
8. Rosanna is the daughter of Rebecca (Davis) Budlong (1722-1802) [confident] 
9. Rebecca is the daughter of Aaron Davis (1686-1736) [confident] 
10. Aaron is the son of Joshua Davis (abt.1666-abt.1736) [confident] 
11. Joshua is the son of Mary (Rodman) Davis (abt.1645-abt.1691) [confident] 
12. Mary is the daughter of John Rodman (1615-abt.1686) [unknown confidence] 
13. John is the son of Thomas William Rodman (abt.1598-abt.1656) [unknown confidence] 
14. Thomas is the son of Francis Redman (1563-) [unknown confidence] 
15. Francis is the son of William Redman (1522-1598) [unknown confidence] 
16. William is the son of James Redman (-1525) [unknown confidence] 
17. James is the son of Margery (Tunstall) Redman (1472-1493) [unknown confidence] 
18. Margery is the daughter of Alice (Neville) Tunstall (abt.1455-abt.1498) [unknown confidence] 
19. Alice is the daughter of George Neville (abt.1433-1476) [uncertain] 
20. George is the son of Richard (Neville) de Neville KG (abt.1400-abt.1460) 
21. Richard is the son of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG (1379-1440) [confident] 
22. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) [confident] 
23. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) [confident] 

#13 is one problem in the 2nd tree - this person almost certainly didn't have a middle name William, so this is either Thomas or William Redman. Researching further #15 is cited in this source but they only had a daughter Frances and not a son Francis and no mention of that 2nd marriage, probably because this is a different line you can see in this pedigree in the same book. I'm going to disconnect his son/2nd wife and see if I can find where they might fit in the Thorton-in-Lonsdale line.

85 Answers

+16 votes

Brought over from Round 2:

1. Lancelot is the son of Susan (Rich) Bathurst (1615-1669) 
2. Susan is the daughter of Anne (Bourchier) Rich (abt.1572-aft.1616) 
3. Anne is the daughter of Bridget (Scrope) Bourchier (1546-1573) 
4. Bridget is the daughter of John Scrope (abt.1515-1549) 
5. John is the son of Henry (Scrope) le Scrope KB (1480-1533) 
6. Henry is the son of Elizabeth (Percy) le Scrope (abt.1455-aft.1512) 
7. Elizabeth is the daughter of Henry Percy (1421-1461) 
8. Henry is the son of Eleanor (Neville) Percy (abt.1398-abt.1472) 
9. Eleanor is the daughter of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG (1379-1440) 
10. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) 
11. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) 

by Joe Cochoit G2G6 Pilot (226k points)

The biggest problem I am having is proving that Thomas Bourchier's wife Bridget was a Scrope, and that she was a daughter of John Scrope, 8th Lord Scrope of Bolton. She was not on his list of children when parliament examined the Scrope family. Still checking.

So after a great deal of looking, I find no evidence that the wife of Thomas Bourchier had the LNAB of Scrope, and no evidence that John Le Scrope, 8th Baron Scrope had a daughter named Bridget. What I have found is on the page of Thomas Bourchier.

After giving people time to respond, I will be breaking the line here.
This line has been broken at #4. Bridget is not known to be the daughter of John Scrope, 8th Baron Scrope of Bolton. Lancelot Bathurst does still have many medieval lines, just not to Edward III.
According to WIkitree I am the 18th great grandchild of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville. Is she considered a gateway ancestor?
+11 votes

Brought over from Round 2:

1. Thomas is the son of William Morgan (abt.1604-abt.1690) 
2. William is the son of William Morgan (1567-abt.1652) 
3. William is the son of Thomas Morgan MP (1534-1603) 
4. Thomas is the son of Rowland Morgan (abt.1508-abt.1577) 
5. Rowland is the son of Elizabeth (Vaughan) Morgan (1486-abt.1524) 
6. Elizabeth is the daughter of Joan (Whitney) Vaughan (abt.1462-1550) 
7. Joan is the daughter of Constance (Tuchet) Whitney (abt.1440-bef.1470) 
8. Constance is the daughter of Eleanor (Holand) Touchet (abt.1405-1452) 
9. Eleanor is the daughter of Constance (York) le Despencer LG (abt.1374-1416) 
10. Constance is the daughter of Edmund (Plantagenet) of Langley KG (1341-1402) 
11. Edmund is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) 

by Joe Cochoit G2G6 Pilot (226k points)

There is no evidence that Thomas Morgan of Maryland was a son of William Morgan of Monmouthshire, Wales. He had been previously disconnected, but now recently re-connected.  He will be disconnected again, and Project Protected. He can be reattached if anyone has evidence as to his parentage.

The line has been broken at Thomas Morgan.
+10 votes

Brought over from Round 2:

4. Phebe is the daughter of John S Turner 
5. John is the son of John B. Turner 
6. John is the son of Henry B. Turner] 
7. Henry is the son of Ann Kimbrough 
8. Ann is the daughter of Thomas Henry Kimbrough

9. Thomas is the son of Elizabeth (Bradley) Kimbrough 
10. Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Bradley
11. Thomas is the son of Frances (Saville) Bradley
12. Frances is the daughter of John (Savile) Saville 
13. John is the son of Robert Savile Knt. 
14. Robert is the son of Henry Savile KB 
15. Henry is the son of Elizabeth (Paston) Savile
16. Elizabeth is the daughter of Anne (Beaufort) Paston 

17. Anne is the daughter of Edmund Beaufort KG 
18. Edmund is the son of John Beaufort KG
19. John is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG 
20. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England 

by Joe Cochoit G2G6 Pilot (226k points)

Interesting, as there appears to be a good chance that the line is correct down to the immigrant Thomas Bradley. The problems are in the Virginia portion of the Kimbrough line.  Elizabeth Bradley is said to have married two different men. There was no one named Thomas Henry Bradley so who is he? The Kimbrough's need some work.

That said, I need to go through each generation, but Thomas Bradley may be added to the list of EIII descendants.

+7 votes

I suspect a problem with this line:

11. Charles is the son of John Goodrich) 
12. John is the son of John Goodrich (1584-1646) 
13. John is the son of Richard Goodricke (1560-1601) 
14. Richard is the son of Clare (Norton) Goodrick (abt.1528-1596) [
15. Clare is the daughter of Susan (Neville) Norton (1501-) 
16. Susan is the daughter of Richard Neville KB (1468-1530) 
17. Richard is the son of Henry Neville (abt.1437-1469) 
18. Henry is the son of George Neville (abt.1414-abt.1476) 
19. George is the son of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG (1379-1440) 
20. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) 
21. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) 

by Cheryl Cruise G2G6 Mach 5 (56.9k points)

This is great - we found another H.G. Somerby fraud. The parish records in the key time period are missing but "Searches of H.G. Somerby show that Lawrence Wilkinson was the son of William Wilkinson of Harperley House and Mary Conyers, sister of John Conyers, Baronet." Genealogical Fraud

T Stanton is leader of Rhode Island Project - should probably give him a holler - https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project:Rhode_Island
Thank you, Liz.  Regarding contacting T. Stanton of the Rhode Island Project, would this be to let him know that the line is in question, or ?  I just want to give the correct information and only joined in December, so am still getting up to speed in some areas.  Thank you for your help (and Joe's!), it is greatly appreciated.
Hi Cheryl! And welcome to WikiTree :D

When a profile is "locked", also referred to as "protected" or PPP - as in project-protected profile, it needs a project to be added as a manager to be the "project" in the PPP. It seems that probably the Rhode Island Project would be a good fit, and T Stanton is the leader of that project. See https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project:Rhode_Island

A project is also a great place to find helpful hints about sources.
Thank you so much for your helpful answer, Liz!  I hadn't realized the profile was actually locked now.  I will contact the project.  Thank you again for all your help!

10. William is the son of Thomas (Bird) Byrd (1664-1704) 
11. Thomas is the son of John Bird (abt.1618-1671)
12. John is the son of Elizabeth Byrd (abt.1590-) 
13. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Burgh) Reade (abt.1580-) 
14. Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Burgh KG (1558-1597) 
15. Thomas is the son of William Burgh (1522-1584) 
16. William is the son of Thomas Burgh (1487-1550) 
17. Thomas is the son of Anne (Cobham) Burgh (abt.1465-1526)
18. Anne is the daughter of Anne (Stafford) Cobham (1429-1472) 
19. Anne is the daughter of Humphrey Stafford KG (1402-1460) 
20. Humphrey is the son of Anne (Plantagenet) of Gloucester (1383-1438)
21. Anne is the daughter of Thomas (Plantagenet) of Woodstock KG (1355-1397) 
22. Thomas is the son of Edward (Plantagenet)

I thought I already broke this line. Elizabeth Burgh could not have married John Le Bird.  I think I was checking a couple more sources before breaking the line.
Thank you.
Thank you! I was Getting frustrated. You’re aware of the other Connections correct? there’s few more than that. You can cheat and check out his public famous kin! wow.
Hi Chrissy, which person were you referring to?  There were several trees above, not sure which one you meant.
+8 votes

I seem to have a few trails to Edward III....lets try this one:

Plantagenet-1561.gifEdward III Plantagenet

by Stephanie Alakas G2G2 (2.2k points)

According to The Scots Peerage, vol. 7, p. 290, Euphemia Leslie and her brother James Leslie, are both children of George Leslie, 4th Earl of Rothes and his third wife Agnes Somerville, not the children of Margaret Crichton.

Thanks you John Atkinson. So if Agnes Somerville was the parent, Elizabeth Carmichael was her mother. Elizabeth Carmichael was the Mistress of James V. Is there a link to Edward IiI through him or Elizabeth Carmichaels mother?

Thank you
+8 votes

I have the gateway ancestor, [[Dudley-129| Governor Thomas Dudley]] who is not included on your list. 

The Royal Descents of 900 Immigrants, Gary Boyd Roberts, pages 295-297.

by Marilyn Kenyon G2G6 Mach 1 (14.6k points)
edited by Marilyn Kenyon

I will have to refresh my memory on this one later, but the ancestry of Gov. Thomas Dudley is not completely accepted. This would mean we have an error somewhere on WikiTree.

1. Thomas is the son of Roger Dudley (abt.1550-1586)
2. Roger is the son of Henry Dudley (abt.1517-1568)
3. Henry is the son of John Sutton (1496-1553)
4. John is the son of Cicely (Willoughby) Sutton (abt.1466-1539)
5. Cicely is the daughter of Joan (Strangeways) Berkeley (1427-1485)
6. Joan is the daughter of Catherine (Neville) Mowbray (1399-1478) 
7. Catherine is the daughter of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG (1379-1440)
8. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) 
9. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377)

I'm not sure if you are saying Wiki isn't showing a match. One of my connections goes back through Gov. Thomas Dudley. When I try to link it here it reverts back to a different. I show 13 different pathways, The path is through Betsey Parkhurst.

https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Special:Relationship&action=calculate&person1_name=Plantagenet-70&person2_name=Kenyon-1066

Marilyn

I have Governor Thomas Dudley as a 10th great grandfather confirmed but haven't found him listed as one of my 28 paths to Edward III...or maybe just not yet. I saw your post and wanted to comment though as we may be related closer than that- Cheers! Becky Elizabeth (Simmons-11603)

You can see this came up in 2017:

Paternal Ancestry of Gov. Thomas Dudley

I will have to re-study this, but basically, if I remember this correctly, I do not think Roger is a son of Henry.  There is enough doubt that he won't make the list of proven gateway ancestors.

Joe,

Good to know. I'm new to the royalty connections, this is all new to me. So, Gov Thomas Dudley no longer rates as a proven gateway ancestor.

Marilyn
Correct, Gov. Thomas Dudley is not a proven gateway ancestor as he has at least one generation which is questionable.
+7 votes
The relationship finder shows I have a connection to Edward III through a gateway, Bettie Innes, who is not on the list of Gateway Ancestors on WikiTree.

I used the Relationship Finder to get the connection, but do not know how to have the system give me the "shingled" array like the first 6 answers on this thread.  My display is like the seventh answer, which does not show the level of confidence for each generation, which means I do not find it as useful as the "shingled" display.

EuGene Smith, 56571

Clinton, AR
by EuGene Smith G2G4 (4.9k points)

I will sometimes copy-paste the output from the Relationship Finder, do a little formatting, and then post it into one of these answers. I will also sometimes intentionally strip out the confidence to make sure each generation fits on one line, and to make sure I don't have a problem with the character count limit (turns out there are a lot of hidden characters inside of each link which count).

1. Elizabeth is the daughter of Andrew Innes (abt.1630-)  
2. Andrew is the son of Elizabeth (Douglas) Innes (1589-1655)  
3. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Sutherland) Douglas (abt.1570-abt.1642) 
4. Elizabeth is the daughter of Alexander (Sutherland) Sutherland VIIIth of Duffus (1534-1570) 
5. Alexander is the son of Elizabeth (Stewart) Stewart Lady Kintail (abt.1515-1567)  
6. Elizabeth is the daughter of John (Stewart) Stewart Second Earl of Atholl (aft.1475-abt.1521)  
7. John is the son of John (Stewart) Stewart of Balveny First Earl of Atholl (abt.1440-1512)  
8. John is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Queen Dowager of Scots (abt.1402-abt.1445)  
9. Joan is the daughter of John Beaufort KG (abt.1371-1410)  
10. John is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399)  
11. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377)  

Andrew Innes is not the son of Elizabeth Douglas.

It is also questionable as to whether or not Elizabeth was the daughter of Andrew Innes.
I have a ton through the Innes name and there is an error on wikitree at Andrew Innes (listed as son of Elizabeth Douglas and John Innes) if you have this person in your tree. However I never found records of his parents and after another member liked my comment and wrote another we pulled info to agree the parents need to be removed. That will cut a lot of tree branches for many members but with the information for the rest of the family it is too much of a stretch to assume there is a son of no mention with no records...
Andrew Innes has been disconnected as a son of John Innes and Elizabeth Douglas.
+7 votes
I used the relationship finder to find my lineage from an unlisted Gateway Ancestor, Bettie (Innes) Mitchell (Innes-120) to Edward III and tried to copy-paste it on here, but could not get it to work (when I tried to paste it here, there was no "paste" listed on the menu (I have never before had that problem with copy-paste).

Anyhoo, I got the sort of lineage listing like that in the seventh answer rather than the "shingled" type listing which shows me where I need to do more research by indicating the level of confidence in each generation.

Needless to say, I am a bit frustrated!

EuGene Smith, 56671

Clinton, AR

501-253-0487
by EuGene Smith G2G4 (4.9k points)
me too, I've tried for over an hour and finally gave it up...
Andrew Innes has been disconnected as a son of John Innes and Elizabeth Douglas.
+8 votes
Whoops!  I stumbled onto the lineage diagram that I needed, and it shows two "Unknown Confidence" generations (I still couldn'r copy paste the two suspect generations, so I am typing them)::

15. Alexander is the son of Elizabeth (Stewart) StewartLady Kintail (abt 1515-1567)(unknown Confidence)

and

16. Elizabeth is the daughter of John (Stewart) Stewart Second Earl of Atholl (aft 1475 - abt 1521)(unknown confidence)

At least that style of shingled tree shows me where I nr=eed to do some research and/or beg for some help!

EuGene Smith, 56571

Clinton, AR

501-253-0487
by EuGene Smith G2G4 (4.9k points)
+6 votes

I am supposedly his 20th great granddaughter but their is a lot of unknown confidence with the Hastings line, ie.  John Hastings 1602-1657.

9. Robert is the son of Robert Hastings (abt.1653-bef.1721) [unknown confidence]
10. Robert is the son of Walter Hastings (1634-1705) [unknown confidence]
11. Walter is the son of John Hastings (abt.1602-1657) [unknown confidence]
12. John is the son of George Hastings MP (abt.1588-1657) [unknown confidence]
13. George is the son of Henry Hastings (abt.1562-1650) [unknown confidence]
14. Henry is the son of George Hastings (abt.1540-1604) [confident]
15. George is the son of Francis Hastings KG (abt.1512-1569) [confident]
16. Francis is the son of George Hastings KB (1489-1544) [confident]
17. George is the son of Edward Hastings KB (1466-1506) [unknown confidence]
18. Edward is the son of Katherine (Neville) Hastings (abt.1435-bef.1504) [confident]
19. Katherine is the daughter of Richard (Neville) de Neville KG (abt.1400-abt.1460) [unknown confidence]
20. Richard is the son of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG (1379-1440) [confident]
21. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) [confident]
22. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) [confident]

by Chris Hoyt G2G6 Pilot (765k points)

Robert Hastings is not the son of Dea. Walter Hastings as I think is fairly easily shown. I have broken the line here.

There are other errors which need fixing.

 20th great granddaughter again, but different route. More uncertains in  20 and 21

10. Mary is the daughter of Elizabeth (Walton) Mansfield (1629-aft.1683) [confident]
11. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Cooke) Walton (abt.1602-1682) [confident]
12. Elizabeth is the daughter of Martha (White) Moore (abt.1575-aft.1648) [confident]
13. Martha is the daughter of Isabel (Bawle) White (abt.1552-1601) [unknown confidence]
14. Isabel is the daughter of Alice (Weston) Bawle (abt.1520-aft.1574) [confident]
15. Alice is the daughter of Cecilia (Neville) Weston (abt.1491-1573) [uncertain]
16. Cecilia is the daughter of Ralph Neville (abt.1475-1499) [confident]
17. Ralph is the son of Ralph Neville KB (abt.1456-1498) [confident]
18. Ralph is the son of Anne (Holland) Douglas (abt.1430-1486) [confident]
19. Anne is the daughter of Anne (Stafford) Holand (abt.1399-1432) [confident]
20. Anne is the daughter of Anne (Plantagenet) of Gloucester (1383-1438) [unknown confidence]
21. Anne is the daughter of Thomas (Plantagenet) of Woodstock KG (1355-1397) [unknown confidence]
22. Thomas is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) [confident]

And here as well

8. James is the son of Mary (Burley) Adams (1688-1772) [confident]
9. Mary is the daughter of Mary (Conant) Kimball (1662-1743) [confident]
10. Mary is the daughter of Elizabeth (Walton) Mansfield (1629-aft.1683) [confident]
11. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Cooke) Walton (abt.1602-1682) [confident]
12. Elizabeth is the daughter of Martha (White) Moore (abt.1575-aft.1648) [confident]
13. Martha is the daughter of Isabel (Bawle) White (abt.1552-1601) [unknown confidence]
14. Isabel is the daughter of Alice (Weston) Bawle (abt.1520-aft.1574) [confident]
15. Alice is the daughter of Cecilia (Neville) Weston (abt.1491-1573) [uncertain]
16. Cecilia is the daughter of Ralph Neville (abt.1475-1499) [confident]
17. Ralph is the son of Ralph Neville KB (abt.1456-1498) [confident]
18. Ralph is the son of Anne (Holland) Douglas (abt.1430-1486) [confident]
19. Anne is the daughter of John (Holland) de Holland (abt.1395-1447) [confident]
20. John is the son of Elizabeth (Lancaster) Holand LG (abt.1362-1425) [confident]
21. Elizabeth is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) [confident]
22. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) [confident]

#15 Cecilia (Neville) Weston (abt.1491-1573) [uncertain] is the main problem. See Weston 1632 Pedigree Controversy 

I think she's in the other two threads as well...

+7 votes

1. John is the son of John Goodrich (1617-1698) [confident]
2. John is the son of John Goodrich (1584-1646) [unknown confidence]
3. John is the son of Richard Goodricke (1560-1601) [confident]
4. Richard is the son of Clare (Norton) Goodrick (abt.1528-1596) [confident]
5. Clare is the daughter of Susan (Neville) Norton (1501-) [confident]
6. Susan is the daughter of Richard Neville KB (1468-1530) [confident]
7. Richard is the son of Henry Neville (abt.1437-1469) [confident]
8. Henry is the son of George Neville (abt.1414-abt.1476) [unknown confidence]
9. George is the son of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG (1379-1440) [unknown confidence]
10. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) [confident]
11. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) [confident]

Plus a couple of lines thru listed gateways; just have to confirm all connections in between. smiley

by Anna Robinson G2G4 (4.9k points)
edited by Anna Robinson
I have Goodrich as an ancestor - not sire about his current status is - yes - no - or maybe
This line has been broken already. There is no evidence as to the ancestry of John Goodrich.
Thank you. I thought it looked a little suspicious at that point.
+7 votes

I have one gateway line through my paternal grandfather that doesn't seem to be on your list.

3. Robert is the son of Sylvia Irene (Sheltraw) Kushion (1918-2012) DNA confirmed
4. Sylvia is the daughter of Dora Amy (Graham) Sheltraw (1879-1962) DNA confirmed
5. Dora is the daughter of Cora Elizabeth (Nelson) Graham (1855-1928) [confident]
6. Cora is the daughter of Amy M. (Guilford) Nelson (1815-1877) [confident]
7. Amy is the daughter of Sylvia K (Miller) Guilford (1786-1858) [confident]
8. Sylvia is the daughter of Paulina (Phelps) Miller (1764-1835) [confident]
9. Paulina is the daughter of Eleanor (Bridgeman) Phelps (1738-1774) [unknown confidence]
10. Eleanor is the daughter of Mehitabel (Warner) Bridgman (1708-1794) [unknown confidence]
11. Mehitabel is the daughter of Mark Warner (1677-1766) [confident]
12. Mark is the son of Abigail (Montague) Warner (abt.1653-1705) [unknown confidence]
13. Abigail is the daughter of Richard Montague (1614-1681) [unknown confidence]
14. Richard is the son of Eleanor (Allen) Montague (1579-1656) [unknown confidence]
15. Eleanor is the daughter of William Allen (1553-1589) [unknown confidence]
16. William is the son of Elizabeth (Dudley) Allen (1526-1579) [unknown confidence]
17. Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Dudley (abt.1475-1549) [unknown confidence]
18. Thomas is the son of Matilda (Clifford) Sutton (bef.1441-aft.1481) [confident]
19. Matilda is the daughter of Thomas Clifford (1414-1455) [confident]
20. Thomas is the son of Elizabeth (Percy) Neville (abt.1395-1436) [confident]
21. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Mortimer) Camoys (1371-1417) [confident]
22. Elizabeth is the daughter of Philippa (Plantagenet) Mortimer (1355-1382) [confident]
23. Philippa is the daughter of Lionel (Plantagenet) of Antwerp KG (1338-1368) [confident]
24. Lionel is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) [confident]

by Heather Kushion G2G6 Mach 1 (10.9k points)
This family was published in the NEHGR in 1988.  This line will break at generation #16 - John Allen did not marry Elizabeth Dudley.  I need to put in a bit more research before I actually break the line.
Breaking the Montague line took a fair amount of work because there were multiple errors to address. The ancestry was wrong on 3 places.

Robert Montague was not a son William Montague

Margaret Malthouse was not a daughter of John Malthouse and Margaret Bullock

William Allen was not a son of John Allen and Elizabeth Dudley.
+8 votes
Joe Cochoit,

Thanks for clearing up the erroneous connections in the terr that I submitted.  I got it from the Relationship Finder but could not find proof for those Innes connections for the supposed Gateway Ancestor, Elizabeth "Bettie" (Innes) Mitchell.

Chances are that part of the lineage was extracted from Ancestry, the largest collection of errors, conflations, and and guesstimates on the Planet.

I will dispense with doing anything about the "unknown confidence" of the Stewarts in generations 15 & 16.

Time to move on to the multitude of brick walls that I have elsewhere in my tree.

EuGene Smith,  56571
by EuGene Smith G2G4 (4.9k points)
+7 votes

20th great grandfather

20th great grandson

1. Clyde is the son of Valine Sarah West (1942-2021)
2. Valine is the daughter of Sarah Thompson (1916-1997)
3. Sarah is the daughter of Lousetta Lela Moran (1886-1972)
4. Lousetta is the daughter of Noah Moran (1844-1934)
5. Noah is the son of Marinda A Lashbrook (1825-1910)
6. Marinda is the daughter of Orin William (Lashbrook) Lashbrooks (abt.1794-abt.1881)
7. Orin is the son of Zeruah (Mitchell) Lashbrook (1773-1887)
8. Zeruah is the daughter of Daniel Mitchell (aft.1740-aft.1790)
9. Daniel is the son of Experience Mitchell (abt.1717-abt.1792)
10. Experience is the son of Experience Mitchell (1676-1759)
11. Experience is the son of Mary (Bonney) Mitchell (1656-1677)
12. Mary is the daughter of Mary (Hunt) Bonney (1633-aft.1693)
13. Mary is the daughter of Dorcas (Oxenbridge) Hunt (1619-1655)
14. Dorcas is the daughter of Katherine (Harby) Oxenbridge (abt.1570-abt.1651)
15. Katherine is the daughter of Katherine (Throckmorton) Harby (abt.1540-1621)
16. Katherine is the daughter of Katherine (Neville) Throckmorton (abt.1517-aft.1576)
17. Katherine is the daughter of Edward Neville (abt.1471-1538)
18. Edward is the son of George Neville (abt.1440-1492)
19. George is the son of Edward Neville (abt.1412-1476)
20. Edward is the son of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG (1379-1440)
21. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399)
22. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377)
This makes Edward the 20th great grandfather of Clyde.

by Clyde Green G2G6 (8.1k points)
edited by Clyde Green

#14 is in MCA to William de Mowbray (vol. III, pages 289-294 OXENBRIDGE) through her mother #15 Katherine. If we skip down to #17 Sir Edward's da. Katherine (Neville) Throckmorton she's noted in Plantagenet Ancestry p. 659 as a descendent of King Edward III. Optimistically she's in RA too.

The other direction #13 Mary (Hunt) Bonney doesn't have any evidence of her mother so I think the line breaks there. Plus there's not enough documentation to my eye in the other colonial ancestors to make this a confident connection. Worth a shot to work on though.

This line has been broken.  Edmund Hunt of Duxbury did not marry Dorcus Oxenbridge. She married a different Edmund Hunt.
+7 votes

Just checked my husband's lines:

4. Mary is the daughter of Benjamin Thomas Hinton (abt.1836-abt.1923) [confident]
5. Benjamin is the son of William Hinton (1814-1891) [unknown confidence]
6. William is the son of Asher Hinton (1782-1856) [unknown confidence]
7. Asher is the son of James Hinton (1739-1828) [unknown confidence]
8. James is the son of Thomas Hinton Jr (abt.1719-1792) [unknown confidence]
9. Thomas is the son of Thomas Philip Hinton (1693-abt.1792) [confident]
10. Thomas is the son of William Hinton (abt.1667-abt.1695) [confident]
11. William is the son of Thomas Hinton (1640-abt.1700) [confident]
12. Thomas is the son of John Hinton (abt.1603-1682) [confident]
13. John is the son of Catherine (Palmer) Hinton (1580-1661) [confident]
14. Catherine is the daughter of William Palmer (1544-1586) [confident]
15. William is the son of Catherine (Stradling) Palmer (abt.1512-1585) [confident]
16. Catherine is the daughter of Edward Stradling (bef.1473-1535) [confident]
17. Edward is the son of Thomas Stradling Esq (aft.1454-1480) [confident]
18. Thomas is the son of Henry Stradling (abt.1412-1476) [confident]
19. Henry is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Stradling (abt.1390-1479) [confident]
20. Joan is the daughter of Henry Beaufort (abt.1374-1447) [confident]
21. Henry is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) [unknown confidence]
22. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) [confident]

by Anna Robinson G2G4 (4.9k points)
Anna, how did you copy and paste that to you answer... i can't seem to do it
I just highlighted that portion, hit "control" and the letter "c". Then come to this answer/comment box, click in it, then hit "control" and the letter "v". This is on a regular PC and keyboard.
Thank you Anna, That worked... i just can't use the mouse to copy and paste i have to use the control key and letter...
My understanding is the Hinton line has been removed from RD900, though I don't know why.

With regard to Thomas Hinton, I have found that he went to Virginia but then returned to England. So, is he the same as the person who died in 1683? Did he really leave a will in Maryland in 1683? And is William really known to be his son?
I also wonder about the connection between Thomas Hinton and his "father" John Hinton. Thomas was apparently born in Leiden, Holland, Netherlands; I see nothing on John's profile about being there at any point.
+6 votes
My 20th great grandfather.... but i can't figure out how to post the lineage here without typing it all out...
by Clyde Green G2G6 (8.1k points)

1. John is the son of Andrew Lamont Young (abt.1646-)
2. Andrew is the son of John Lamont (1603-1646) 
3. John is the son of Agnes (Stewart) Lamont (bef.1579-1636)  
4. Agnes is the daughter of Margaret (Stewart) Stewart of Methven (abt.1539-1627)  
5. Margaret is the daughter of Janet (Stewart) Stewart Lady Ruthven (1505-1566) 
6. Janet is the daughter of John (Stewart) Stewart Second Earl of Atholl (aft.1475-abt.1521) 
7. John is the son of John (Stewart) Stewart of Balveny First Earl of Atholl (abt.1440-1512) 
8. John is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Queen Dowager of Scots (abt.1402-abt.1445) 
9. Joan is the daughter of John Beaufort KG (abt.1371-1410) [confident] 
10. John is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) 
11. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) 

This is a weird one & I think #2 is not well documented. The Lamont clan was attacked and 200 or so family members were massacred by Clan Campbell on 3 Jun 1646, and many more fled their lands. The presumably Roman Catholic Andrew Lamont (he didn't have a middle name, that's prob. a GEDCOM error) escaped to Presbyterian Northern Ireland and either changed his surname to Young or that was just an alias to avoid being murdered and converted to being Presbyterian (even thought that was the reason for the massacre...hmm). Then his descendants emigrated to Anglican Virginia and kept using Young but someone figured out this Lamont connection at some point and made a guess.  

In the meantime, by 1661 the Roman Catholic Lamonts had their lands back and were largely prevented from participating in the 18th cent. uprisings by the Campbells.

The Scotland->Irish Plantation->American Colonies route is a very difficult to prove because that Irish hop has almost no chance of finding any documents. 

#4 Agnes (Stewart) Lamont (bef.1579-1636)  also looks unlikely to me.

Agnes isn't documented with any spouse in the Scots Peerage v.6 pp 514-516 

Clyde, I share this same Young line with you and have asked about how to add it to the list. I look forward to answers.
+7 votes
According to WikiTree, I have seven direct paths to Edward III; three through George Reade, one through William Randolph (these two on the list already), plus two through John Young abt. 1671-1747 and one through William Overton 1638-1697. I don't know how to add Young and Overton. Can someone help?
by Martha Slater G2G5 (5.1k points)

1. William is the son of Robert Overton (1609-1679) [confident] 
2. Robert is the son of Joane (Snawsell) Overton (bef.1586-bef.1656) [confident] 
3. Joane is the daughter of Robert Snawsell (bef.1556-aft.1612) [unknown confidence] 
4. Robert is the son of Bryan Snawsell (abt.1535-1558) 
5. Bryan is the son of Ann (Mauleverer) Snawsell (abt.1510-)
6. Ann is the daughter of Joan (Plumpton) Mauleverer (abt.1480-)
7. Joan is the daughter of Agnes (Gascoigne) Plumpton (aft.1460-1504)
8. Agnes is the daughter of Jane Neville (abt.1434-1486) 
9. Jane is the daughter of John Neville Esq. (1416-1482)  
10. John is the son of Mary (Ferrers) Neville (1394-1458)  
11. Mary is the daughter of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG (1379-1440)  
12. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399)  
13. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377)  

1. John is the son of Andrew Lamont Young (abt.1646-)
2. Andrew is the son of John Lamont (1603-1646)
3. John is the son of Agnes (Stewart) Lamont (bef.1579-1636)  
4. Agnes is the daughter of Margaret (Stewart) Stewart of Methven (abt.1539-1627)  
5. Margaret is the daughter of Janet (Stewart) Stewart Lady Ruthven (1505-1566) 
6. Janet is the daughter of John (Stewart) Stewart Second Earl of Atholl (aft.1475-abt.1521) 
7. John is the son of John (Stewart) Stewart of Balveny First Earl of Atholl (abt.1440-1512) 
8. John is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Queen Dowager of Scots (abt.1402-abt.1445) 
9. Joan is the daughter of John Beaufort KG (abt.1371-1410) [confident] 
10. John is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) 
11. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) 

Thank you so much for your help! Does this mean my Gateway Ancestor will be included in the list?

Martha
Thanks to you for helping me on this! Does it mean Overton will be added to the Gateway Ancestor list?

Martha Slater
Not necessarily.  William Overton still needs to be researched and I believe there is a problem.
Joe,

Wm Overton is one of my ggrandfathers t

McCurdy-322

Sure Lynn, thank you. I wrote on the profile when this first was posted:

  • The parentage of William Overton is not known. He is often said and generally accepted to be the son of Major Gen Robert Overton and [[Gardiner-132|Anne Gardiner. However, there is no actual evidence to support this. More discussion to come...

However, it looks like I never got back to it, and don't remember why I felt confident in saying William Overton's parentage is unknown - I have to re-research it. I would be interested in any primary  records which prove, disprove, or bring into doubt his parentage.

According to one source I have of William Overtons genealogy in England, that much of that information was lost in a fire during our Civil War battles in Virginia.  Yes, we all have the info on who is thought to be his father, Robert Overton. Even so far as Roberts children include a William. But, I will continue to search for hard data of his parentage.
Thank you for working on this!
I sent you a message Joe, about Overton.
I haven’t found a birth or baptism ledger which indicates William Overtons parentage.  Unless I find someone in England who can look up Overtons birth/baptism at the local church in the county he was possibly born, we are out of luck..  But I haven’t given up.  It is just bad luck that nothing has survived.  Will get back to those who would like to know, in about a month.  Have one more area to look.  Lynn

Joe, 

TWO THINGS RE: WILLIAM OVERTONS father and mother:

1.  This is as close to I got trying to find Wm Overtons father and mother from documents on this side of the pond, which would indicate he was the son of Robert Overton:  

“William OVERTON of Virginia - 1638-1697, by Edna Parker BENSON”

     William OVERTON was born 3 December 1638 in Holderness, Yorkshire, England, the son of Robert and Anne (GARDINER) OVERTON. It is believed that this OVERTON family was descended from John OVERTON of Easington, in Holderness, Yorkshire.

      William’s father, General Robert OVERTON, was a scholar as well as a soldier. At the beginning of the Civil War in England he took up arms with the Parliamentary forces under Oliver CROMWELL, served under the FAIRFAXes, and distinguished himself in the defense of Hull and at the battle of Marston Moor. About July 1647 Robert succeeded to the command of the foot regiment and shortly afterwards became Governor of Hull. In the second Civil War General Robert OVERTON’S regiment fought under Cromwell in Wales and in the North. He took no part in the trial of King Charles I of England, who was beheaded, but it is reported he approved of that measure. When CROMWELL followed Charles II into England, General Overton remained in Scotland, commanded all English forces in the West, and was appointed Governor of Aberdeen.

      After the fall of Oliver CROMWELL, Charles II became King of England and the restoration of the Long Parliament was accomplished. It was then the prestige of Robert OVERTON alternately waxed and waned. He was imprisoned, then restored, and imprisoned again. Finally, in May of 1663 Gen. Robert OVERTON, along with many others, was tried for treason and was exiled as a prisoner in January 1664 to the Barbados Islands where he was still living in February 1668. The date and place of his death are unknown.   

      William OVERTON, General Robert Overton's son,  was engaged to marry Mary Elizabeth WATERS. However, the OVERTON’s were adherents of CROMWELL and were Protestants, and the WATERS were Royalists and Catholics. Consequently, their families were opposed to their marriage. The couple had probably planned to go to Virginia as a result of this opposition. When William was nearly caught by the Royalists in 1669, with the help of his father’s servants and friends, he was disguised and Mary Elizabeth’s nurse hid him and persuaded her nephew, a ship’s captain, to bring him secretly to Virginia. On the sea captain’s next trip he brought Elizabeth and her nurse. William OVERTON met the ship on which she came and he and the young and beautiful Mary Elizabeth WATERS were married on 24 November 1670 aboard the ship while it was still anchored in the harbor at Yorktown, Virginia.

      Mary Elizabeth WATERS was the daughter of Mrs. Anne WATERS of St. Sepulcher’s Parish, London. “The will of Anne WATERS of St. Sepulcher’s Parish, London, dated September 29, 1697, probated July, 1700, by her son Thomas WATERS and filed in the Prerogative Courts of Canterbury County Kent, England states: ‘I give to my daughter Elizabeth OVERTON, now in Virginia the sum of ten shillings and to my son-in-law William OVERTON, her husband, ten shillings.’”

Obviously this is not a birth certificate or a baptism certificate.

2.  I have a dear friend who lives in the middle of the English island.  He accepted the task of trying to find a baptism document for William..either in the churches of Yorkshire or in Roberts family home in Easington.  This could be a while, if we find anything. 

Will let you know what my friend finds, if anything.

                                                        ###

 

 

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+7 votes
According to the relationship finder, I have 10 direct relationships to Edward, with him being my 19th and18th great-grandfather. Because there are 10 relationships, and it will take some to check all of them against your list, I will not attempt to list them here now. You can use Rivenbark-7 to find them.
by Randi Rivenbark G2G2 (2.9k points)

10. William is the son of Francis Browne (bef.1625-1691) [unknown confidence] 
11. Francis is the son of Anthony Maria Browne (1574-1629) [unknown confidence] 
12. Anthony is the son of Anthony Browne (abt.1552-1592) [unknown confidence] 
13. Anthony is the son of Anthony Browne KG (1528-1592) [confident] 
14. Anthony is the son of Anthony Browne KG (abt.1500-1548) [unknown confidence] 
15. Anthony is the son of Lucy (Neville) Browne (aft.1466-1534)
16. Lucy is the daughter of John (Neville) de Neville KG (abt.1431-1471)
17. John is the son of Richard (Neville) de Neville KG (abt.1400-abt.1460)
18. Richard is the son of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG (1379-1440)
19. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399)
20. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377)

not Magna Carta Project: 10. William is the son of Francis Browne (bef.1625-1691) [unknown confidence] 
not Magna Carta Project: 11. Francis is the son of Anthony Maria Browne (1574-1629) [unknown confidence] 
in badged trail (to Magna Carta Surety) 12. Anthony is the son of Anthony Browne (abt.1552-1592) [unknown confidence] 
in badged trail (to Magna Carta Surety) 13. Anthony is the son of Anthony Browne KG (1528-1592) [confident] 
in badged trail (to Magna Carta Surety) 14. Anthony is the son of Anthony Browne KG (abt.1500-1548) [unknown confidence] 
in badged trail (to Magna Carta Surety)  15. Anthony is the son of Lucy (Neville) Browne (aft.1466-1534)
in badged trail (to Magna Carta Surety) 16. Lucy is the daughter of John (Neville) de Neville KG (abt.1431-1471)
in badged trail (to Magna Carta Surety)  17. John is the son of Richard (Neville) de Neville KG (abt.1400-abt.1460)
Medieval Project-managed profile: Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG (1379-1440)  / daughter of John, son of Edward III

I removed the "needs work" comment for Francis & "Anthony Maria" - I'd added that as a placeholder before looking at their profiles. Someone else needs to assess them (especially Francis's, which made my eyes cross with the embarrassment of sources). I had missed "Anthony Maria" in Richardson, where he's just Anthony, not Anthony Maria, but is shown as "2nd Viscount Montagu", which his profile names him also - and his profile appears to have good sources, but the Richardson trail continues through a daughter of his father, not him - Royal Ancestry, volume V, pp 137-8 TEMPLE 16).

I think the linked Francis Browne is probably not a son of Anthony Maria. There is no evidence for him having a second Francis. The profile acknowledges this along with speculation about him being a cousin or other relative   but for some reason has not been unlinked. Anthony Marias's heir was a Francis who inherited the title, lived and died in England. (no idea of the religion of the emigrant but the Browne family were an immensly rich  and relatively powerful Catholic family. Anthony Maria Browne was a well known recusant,  arrested after the gunpowder plot but escaped being  charged)
There is zero doubt that Francis Browne of Virginia is 1. Not the same as the 3rd Viscount Montagu, and 2. Not a son of Anthony-Maria Browne 2nd Viscount Montagu.

We probably need the Virginia Project to Project Protect before disconnecting.
I've added a comment on the profile . If no reply, will bring to G2G
+9 votes

Yes, It has my Samuel Deering line connected, but the line is very low on sources. Samuel Deering was a great migration immigrant, but above him seems pretty sketchy

12. Rachel is the daughter of Samuel Deering (abt.1622-1671) [confident]
13. Samuel is the son of George Deering (1600-1645) [confident]
14. George is the son of Richard Dering Esq. (abt.1530-bef.1611) [confident]
15. Richard is the son of Margaret (Brent) Moore (abt.1505-bef.1560) [confident]
16. Margaret is the daughter of Anne (Berkeley) Brent (abt.1489-1572) [confident]
17. Anne is the daughter of Elizabeth (Neville) Covert (abt.1467-aft.1500) [confident]
18. Elizabeth is the daughter of George Neville (abt.1440-1492) [confident]
19. George is the son of Edward Neville (abt.1412-1476) [confident]
20. Edward is the son of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG (1379-1440) [confident]
21. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) [confident]
22. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) [confident]

by Janelle Weir G2G6 Mach 4 (48.9k points)

Traci looked up the ones covered in Richardson's Royal Ancestry & noted that Richard Dering had a son George RAII.595 FISHER - George (unsourced) to Saumel to Rachel needs work

Me: maybe there’s a missing generation? Richard’s son George would have been born closer to 1560 than 1600.

12. Rachel is the daughter of Samuel Deering (abt.1622-1671) [confident]
13. Samuel is the son of George Deering (1600-1645) [confident]  RAII.595 FISHER
14. George is the son of Richard Dering Esq. (abt.1530-bef.1611) [confident]  RAII.595 FISHER
15. Richard is the son of Margaret (Brent) Moore (abt.1505-bef.1560) [confident]  RAII.595 FISHER
16. Margaret is the daughter of Anne (Berkeley) Brent (abt.1489-1572) [confident]  RAII.595 FISHER
17. Anne is the daughter of Elizabeth (Neville) Covert (abt.1467-aft.1500) [confident]  RAII.595 FISHER, RAI.323 BERGAVENNY
18. Elizabeth is the daughter of George Neville (abt.1440-1492) [confident]  RAI.323 BERGAVENNY
19. George is the son of Edward Neville (abt.1412-1476) [confident]  RAI.323 BERGAVENNY; RAIV.233 NEVILLE
20. Edward is the son of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG (1379-1440) [confident] RAIV.233 NEVILLE, RAIII LANCASTER 500
21. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) [confident] RAIV.233 NEVILLE; RAI.88 ENGLAND
22. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) [confident] RAI.88 ENGLAND

Joe - I don't see how George in MA, born c1600, could be son of Richard. While maybe Richard could have been his father, it is doubtful his wife could have been the mother - Richard married about 1557 to Margaret Twysden (she died 1608; he died 1611).

The list of children on his (Richard's) profile has George as second son & daughters Bennett (born 1568) and Elizabeth listed later (while Richardson tends to list daughters and sons separately, except for the one continuing the trail - in this case, Bennett, Richardson usually lists them in the what appears to be the correct birth order).

@ Traci - I think George should be detached per Magna Carta Project policy... Even though Richardson names a son George, I seriously doubt that the profile attached for his son George could possibly be him (1600 birth puts Richard about 70 and his wife bout 55).

and that's if Margaret was born c1545. Richardson has c1530 for Richard's birth & 1557 for their marriage. A 1566 settlement could imply Margaret was 21 that year. Bennett is the only child with a date - baptized 1568.

born c1545 is plausible given the info (marriages occurred regardless of age... consummation came later if the couple were young).

Looking through Changes for Margaret's profile to find source of birth year - it was the ged import that created the profile (while no sources were included, it seems the other info is correct, so maybe 1545 is too).

I agree. Richard had a son George, but not the same George that is attached as a son to Richard's profile.

12. Rachel is the daughter of Samuel Deering (abt.1622-1671) [confident] ??
13. Samuel is the son of George Deering (1600-1645) [confident]  ??
14. George is the son of Richard Dering Esq. (abt.1530-bef.1611) [confident]  RAII.595 FISHER
15. Richard is the son of Margaret (Brent) Moore (abt.1505-bef.1560) [confident]  RAII.595 FISHER
16. Margaret is the daughter of Anne (Berkeley) Brent (abt.1489-1572) [confident]  RAII.595 FISHER

17. Anne is the daughter of Elizabeth (Neville) Covert (abt.1467-aft.1500) [confident]  RAII.594 FISHER
18. Elizabeth is the daughter of George Neville (abt.1440-1492) [confident]  RAI.323 BERGAVENNY
19. George is the son of Edward Neville (abt.1412-1476) [confident]  RAI.323 BERGAVENNY

20. Edward is the son of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG (1379-1440) [confident] RAIV.237 NEVILLE, 
21. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) [confident] RAIV.233 NEVILLE, RAIII LANCASTER 500
22. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) [confident] RAI.88 ENGLAND

Traci - I've posted a comment on George's profile & will detach him from Richard Dering later this evening. Do you think that we need to create a profile for a son of Richard named George born c1570? Would he be a no-trail managed profile or orphaned after creation?
IMO, I'd create a new one and orphan it. Do you want me to do that?
sorry - I was offline for a bit and then got sidetracked. Would you?
+8 votes

Looks like my Northup line may have an issue too:

12. Samuel is the son of Joseph Northrup II (1623-1669) [unknown confidence]
13. Joseph is the son of Katherine (Birdsey) Northrup (1603-1692) [unknown confidence]
14. Katherine is the daughter of Phillipi (Smith) Birdseye (1581-1630) [unknown confidence]
15. Phillipi is the daughter of Henry Smith (1550-1612) [unknown confidence]
16. Henry is the son of Mary Nevill (1528-1593) [unknown confidence]
17. Mary is the daughter of Clara Neville (1507-1532) [unknown confidence]
18. Clara is the daughter of Anne (Ward) Neville (1478-1521) [unknown confidence]
19. Anne is the daughter of Margaret (Gascoigne) Warde (abt.1461-) [unknown confidence]
20. Margaret is the daughter of Jane Neville (abt.1434-1486) [unknown confidence]
21. Jane is the daughter of John Neville Esq. (1416-1482) [confident]
22. John is the son of Mary (Ferrers) Neville (1394-1458) [confident]
23. Mary is the daughter of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG (1379-1440) [confident]
24. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG (abt.1340-1399) [confident]
25. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England (1312-1377) [confident]

by Janelle Weir G2G6 Mach 4 (48.9k points)
"Phillipi" doesn't seem to have any documentation of her marriage to Edward Birdseye or her parents. Her father and grandmother are mentioned in a church monument (in Latin) so she seems like one person to concentrate on.

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