Detach undocumented father from immigrant Thomas Gaines

+7 votes
271 views
There is no known documentation for the father of Virginia immigrant Thomas Gaines aka Games, but  in his unsourced profile he is attached as a son to Sir John Games of Newton, Brecknockshire, Wales. (undocumented mother has already been removed to her correct spouse)

Sir John Games was a well-known figure in Wales, and sources show that he had only two sons - Edward and John. No Thomas. I have added such sources to Sir John Games' unsourced profile, including the correct Will (the Will cited there is for a different person with a different death date, which needs to be corrected.)

Sir John's profile needs to be edited to supply a biography as per the sources available, and Thomas and his relatives detached.
WikiTree profile: Thomas Games
in Genealogy Help by Lois Tilton G2G6 Pilot (130k points)

2 Answers

–3 votes
It maybe the name is Gaines, owners of Newton house, brecon wales. There should be the full genealogy in the records of the peerage, if it is a Sir.  

Sometimes I have seen wills where the son that has left for British America is not included in the will, as they do not expect him back and sometimes they received their inheritance in land/money in British North America.

Perhaps there is more information in the history of Brecon, Wales???
by Lynn L G2G6 Mach 7 (78.5k points)
The Honor Code also implies that one not dismiss information is there no evidence one way of the other.  Evidence can be for someone or it just may not be available in the sources used.
No it doesn't imply no descendants at all, there are still people by that name.  

Perhaps check with these people for sources.

http://srvg.org/Members-Only/Library/Surnames/Descendant-Report-for-John-Games---Jennett-Harvard.pdf
By what criteria do you determine that a modern day book is more reliable than contemporary sources?
The Honor Code makes it quite clear that the onus to provide evidence sits firmly upon those who create the profiles and make the connections, which in this case hasn't happened. Those who want a fairytale tree should do it on their own private tree. A collaborative tree requires evidence.
I don't determine that a modern day book is more reliable than contemporary sources, if I can find contemporary sources, which in this case would be  Wales in the 1500's then that is what I consider the more reliable.  

I thought we were here to help each other not for one up man ship. Good day to you.
Sometimes people have the information but don't have the time to enter it and life continues and sometimes people have intentions of finding what is considered by some to be acceptable evidence and then do not get around to it. There are many reasons that sources are not put on the profiles.  It does not mean that their information is incorrect.  

Life and information is not black and white and because there is not acceptable evidence, according to some,  does not make the information iinvalid, unreliable or fairytale, it means that it is simply unsubstantiated at present.
Contemporary sources from Wales have been cited. You don't accept them. You specifically cited a vanity pedigree that provides no evidence whatsoever as a reliable source. The profile for Thomas Games was created in 2018. Three years and no one has found a single reliable source to prove that he was the son of Sir John Games.

Lynn, sure, it's true that people don't always have time to enter information to profiles they create.  I'm as guilty of that as the next person.  But a couple of points:  First, they shouldn't have to find the sources.  They should have had the sources before creating the profile (or attaching it to parents or whatever).  Second, on a shared tree such as WT, even if they haven't posted their sources in the first place, then when asked they should produce them or accept that other researchers may make revisions based on available evidence.  

I have nothing to say.
–1 vote
by Lynn L G2G6 Mach 7 (78.5k points)
What you will notice in that clipping is the absence of any evidence whatsoever that Thomas Gaines of Virginia was descended from the Games family of Newton, who never carried the name "Gaines".
I will let you go then, but the family carried the nickname Gam meaning skwinty eyed or narrowed eyed and some of the family did carry on the surname Game because of that,  It is the Wales Library.  

Also Thomas in Welsh is Tomos.

Good luck
Where do you get that meaning of Gam ? The Welsh dictionary has Gam ( a mutation of Cam ) meaning "step" as in walking. so "o gam i gam " is "step by step"

https://geiriadur.ac.uk/gpc/gpc.html
This isn't the greatest example but it is from the area of this family, the author speaks of the word gam meaning deformed, in other history, legends, etc. is squinty or bad eye sight.  If I run into the other examples I will post them.
https://www.grahamwatkins.info/post/2018/10/25/dafydd-gam-the-cross-eyed-knight

Here it  means crooked or bent, my definition of it is from an old welsh song that I cannot find at the moment meaning bad eyesight but so it goes, it depends what era one is looking at and what area and how people used the word.
https://getoutside.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/guides/the-welsh-origins-of-place-names-in-britain/

Sorry I was hoping to find my good example but just haven't so here is not the best but one referring to Gam as lame or squinty, which may also mean lame.  
http://earlywelshleigh.blogspot.com/2017/03/pronunciation-and-patronymics.html

Of course right after I say I can't find it, I find it.  If is from a book from 1808 I think, in which they were collecting the relicks of the Welsh Bards, traditional songs.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=vRCFxmjuOBkC&pg=PA184&lpg=PA184&dq=old+welsh+word+for+squint,+gam&source=bl&ots=xyzKgecS0V&sig=ACfU3U2HoL3z4jEL7IrsK2M21HwDriXzUA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjnl6W4rvfyAhXEi54KHeLLDK4Q6AF6BAgIEAM#v=onepage&q&f=false

From 1809 a book with mention of Gam squinty and the family.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=tsMPAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA384&lpg=PA384&dq=old+welsh+word+for+squint,+gam&source=bl&ots=mceerAE2hF&sig=ACfU3U1vBKh2BUZaLaF5k8nfWqUimE6qMA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjxifj1svfyAhXTo54KHZ9HBQI4ChDoAXoECCQQAw#v=onepage&q=Gam&f=false

Good luck to everyone.
Thanks Lynn.  I looked a bit further and found a definition of it being "one-eyed, blind in one eye, or squint-eyed". Cited as from a 1547 dictionary.
That newspaper article offered as evidence cites the work of Theophilus Jones as proof of the relationship between the Gaines family in the colony and the Games family in Wales. Yet here is the work of Theophilus Jones, which doesn't state that at all.

https://archive.org/details/historyofcountyo02jone/page/176/mode/2up
I have seen variations on that definition in several sources. If not correct, it's common.
The Welsh Dictionary contains both meanings, both very old.

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