Is Johan Gustaf's last name at birth Petersson or Hörling?

Question

I am trying to determine the LNAB for this ancestor.

His 1843 birth record doesn't indicate a surname as far as I can tell, just the names of his parents:

(Father Miller Peter Svensson, Mother, Kerstin Svensdotter, 36 years old)

Later in 1872 in the family book we see him with the surname Hörling.  I am assuming that this last name was added later and that maybe it was a surname that was work related?

So is his surname Petersson and not Hörling?

thanks in advance for your answers.

Bonus points to who can translate the witness/god-parents names in lines 3 and 4 !

Comments

This is the best I can do:

Witnesses: Garvaren/Tanner (Liljeros?) Hustru/wife Eva Sophia Petersdotter from Bro, Drängen/farmhand Magnus Niclasson from Askenamåla (or Askeramåla?), Pigan/maid Elliana Niclasdotter [also from] Askenamåla (or Askeramåla?).

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Thanks Missy!

Answer 1

If Sweden at that time still had the patronymic naming and the father was called Peter Svensson, then the son is called Johan Petersson.

Could Hoiling or Horling be a profession?

Comments

If the father had not used that name of Horling before or during Johan Gustaf’s birth, then it probably became his family name after he was born. Also, he did not use it in his marriage record. So, Dieter is correct, his name at birth was Johan Gustaf Petersson.

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I agree with previous speaker: he was born as Johan Gustaf Petersson and took the surname Hörling at a later date.

Correction: he was assigned the name Hörling as a båtsman and elected to keep the name after his service.

Vissefjärda (G, H) AI:15 (1861-1870) Bild 37 / sid 299 (AID: v21030.b37.s299, NAD: SE/VALA/00426) - https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0029134_00038

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If Sweden at that time still had the patronymic naming and the father was called Peter Svensson, then the son is called Johan Petersson.

I would say that it is usually the case but not always. You should not really use that as a rule. And Hörling is a name.

The household books really need to be checked, there are examples of the father being listed with only patronymic last name in the birth record but he has another last name as well and that is the one children use when leaving home.

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Nice find, Maggie! Thank you. 

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Thanks Eva, that pretty much cinches it, I'll switch his LNAB to Petersson.

Question: you wrote the name was 'assigned' to him.  Where do you see that, is it on this page you linked?  

Any idea what a Horling is?  Is it a noun, adjective, military world?  Thanks.

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"Assigned" because it was a soldier name, not his own choice. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Swedish_soldier_names

If you look further down on the same page there are two more soldiers Nr 190 Hörling on the same page. Unrelated, but having that position in sequence.

Båtsman was a soldier in the navy (I'm not all that proficient with the navy).

As för Hörling - as far as I know it doesn't mean anything; might be related to a place name nearby. I'll see if i can find something about it.

Answer 2

It is unusual for a last name to be recorded in a birth notice in Swedish churchbooks, I have seen it only a few times.

You already got some good answers so I would just like to add that generally, a Swedish LNAB is the last name used when a youngster leaves home for the first time. So you would need to follow a person through the books until then and see what name is listed.

In the case of Johan Gustaf, the priest/vicar seems to have added his last name when he leaves his parents and move away from them and the poorhouse;  https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0025778_00389

First listing on his own; https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0025778_00010

Comments

Yes, he left home as Pettersson and then he was Båtsman Hörling from about 1861 to 1872, that's where Hörling came from.

https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0029134_00038

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Thanks Maggie & Eva.

Looking at the poor house record it appears that the line directly above him is his mother: Kerstin Svensdotter.  I'm assuming the H. in front of her name is hustru, wife, and that the indication is that she is the wife of Peter Svensson in the line above?  I know that these are his parent's names - this whole group on this page (save for two on the bottom) all came in '56 and I think that they might be part of the same larger family group.

I had found a record for the parents of a Peter born in 1807 that I had assumed to be Peter's parents.  But as the father was Magnus, I'm thinking that it is the wrong record as this Peter would be Peter Magnusson.  Seeing the birth date on this record for Peter Svensson, born 8 Sep 1818 should be the person I'm looking for, no?

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They (almost) all seem to have been moved from the same page in the previous household book but I would not assume they are all related. You are correct in that H stands for Hustru and that Peter and Kerstin are his parents.

Yes, most likely "your" Peter Svensson would be born on Sept. 8, 1818 in Urshult parish.

However, sometimes the notes about dates from one book to another or through moves between parishes, a 3 can become an 8, December written with numbers 12 can easily become February if the 1 is not noticed etc.

In this case, Peter is actually born in February instead of September. Link birth notice: https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0026062_00263

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Love you Maggie!  You're pulling out all kinds of magic tricks.

So I'm looking at the cursive writing on this last link.  Does it look like he was born 8 September but only baptized in February?:

Peter Svensson : Bredaslätt, fodd d. 8, Sept d. 5 Februari.

Is there a page with this info indexed with the names spelled out.  I searched for hours but I'm a bit lost in this system.  Can you link to the search page where you were able to find this?

thanks!

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The word you read as Sept. is actually döpt, it would read;

Peter Svensson i Bredaslätt, född d. 8, döpt d. 5 Februari.

If you look at the name above Peter’s, you will see (if you enlarge the image) that the vicar squeezed in “Februari” just above the name Elin.

So Peter was born on February 8. The note says döpt/christened/baptized on February 5 which can not be, it should most likely be 15. Depending on parish and time period a child "should" be christened either within a day or two or about a week from the birth date.

And this birth book, at least this year, seems to actually list the last names of the children. Perhaps a new vicar or a large parish with too many children with the same names?

In order to continue your research, a couple of helpful links for the Swedish archives can be found here: Category: The Swedish National Archives 

Check and see if it can help you find the household book for Urshult parish and see the page listing him with his parents and older siblings. This is a source reference to the book:

Urshult (G) AI:10 (1817-1823) Bild (image) 106 / sid (page) 95

If you have tried but not found it, please feel free to send me a pm or give me a shout on Discord and I will help you out.

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Edited due to lack of coffee when posting

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Thanks again Maggie.  I'm still working on this, bit by bit each day.  You wrote:

And this birth book, at least this year, seems to actually list the last names of the children. Perhaps a new vicar or a large parish with too many children with the same names?

I don't understand what you mean about the children's names being listed, I don't see it.

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The birth notice in this parish actually tells you the LNAB which, as I said earlier, is not that common.

https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0026062_00263

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Ah, I understand now - you mean all of the children of the entire parish.  I had thought you meant all the children only of this family so I was looking around on the page for a family list. Wishful thinking no doubt! 

Answer 3

Hi

Yes the surname system was in use some time into the 1900's. There is no definitive time where the use of this patronymic naming was not used any more, but I think that in around 1950-1960 it was pretty much gone.

Hörling was as I can understand, used when he was in the military service, in pic 2 there is a note that he is Båtsman (boats man) no 190. In the military they re-named almost all men, and used names like;

Fröjd (delight), Hag (pasture), Hed (heath), Flykt (escape), Fjäder (feather), Björk (birch), Ask (ash tree), Gran (fir), Tall (pine) because too many had similar first and surnames. There is more history to the use of special soldiers name but I leave that for another time.

Johan Gustaf's surname is Petersson, which is Peter's son. But in picture 2 his surname is written as Pehrsson, and this is a common issue where the priest just writes down what he might think, or heard wrong or just misspelled.

The 1st pic;

on the 19 born - on the 26 baptized Johan August in Hemmingsmåla mill (Qvarn = kvarn).
Father The Miller Peter Svensson Mother Kerstin Svensdotter 36 years (of age).
Wittnes: The tanner Liljerås his Wife Eva Sophia Petersdotter from Bro, farm-worker/boy (Dräng) Magnus Niclasson in Askaremåla, farm-maid (Piga) Elliana (?) Nicklasdotter (ibidem) from same place.

2nd pic;

Hörling, Johan August Pehrsson (boatsman) båtsman no 190 - Sandsjö (probably Kronobergs Län (county)) - Sandsjö kr.län

Hustru (wife) Christina Olausdotter - Lillhöfda (Lillhövda) - Thorsås

loco = in loco (latin) for "here", from same place

Comments

I'll only add (since this is not translated) that once you have opened a specific parish at Riksarkivet you will find the household records under AI (and the post-ca-1900 continuation "parish books" under AIIa), moving in/out of the parish under B, births under C, marriages under E and deaths under F. Many household records (but far from all) have internal indices for the place names, and the others have year indices in the left-hand margin.

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However, the record gives his father's name as Ola rather than Olof (a form which however is used in the father's marriage record: https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0057180_00059 number 25), so if we want to give some kind of preference to the birth record that points toward Olsson.

From family history we know them as the Olson family and I see that most of his records record him as Olsson.  To be clear, Ola's son is Olsson not Olasson? 

And thanks for the other info, I'm still working on this profile all day...

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It can be either. I've seen Olsson for Ola's son before, especially in the south of Sweden (like this is).

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Thanks also Per-Erik, I'm slowly getting to all these records.  Thanks for the translations, I think I'll incorporate into the bios.  You have Johann August, I think its Johann Gutaf though, yes?

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Of course it should read Johan Gustaf 

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On that note: SJ, the Swedish spelling of Johan is just so, with one n; two is the German. So unless you have records indicating it was written that way after emigration, I would recommend you correct the spelling of Carl Johan Olsson's middle name. :)

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Good to know Olov, thanks!

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The links we have posted to digitized records at Riksarkivet allows you to browse further in the same book, but gives no easy access to other books from the same parish. Where I usually start when I use Riksarkivet is here. The search interface can be switched over to English, but that does not translate everything.

commented 2 days ago by Eva Ekeblad 

I must be missing something because no matter what search name I enter I get the same response, no records found.  I've even searched for Peter or Maria and it is always the same:

Your search on Arkiv/församling:Sven Håkansson 

Län:Kronobergs län 

have 0 hits

Try to

• Check the spelling
• Rephrase your query
• Use fewer keywords
• Use more common keywords
• Truncate search term with a * (example: eggs *)

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Sorry. I should have been more explicit. There is no general index of all persons in all books.

The search form is where you find the other books for the same parish. It does say "Search archive/parish".

So you could search for "Urshult" and get a list of the available books. Sorry that it isn't easier than that.

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I just keep digging - I found an unsourced tree on Ancestry that shows exact birth dates of the siblings so I've gone through the Urshult books checking and so far 6 of the 10 children are on the money:

https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=H%C3%A5kansson-1049

I'll check the suggested grandparents later.

I'll keep playing with the Riksarkivet site and try to find my way around.  Thanks to you and all the other helpful Swedish cousins .