How will I know how my request for a new category is proceeding? [closed]

+6 votes
286 views

Hello,

I recently requested a new Category for mtDNA Haplogroup D1 to identify the descendants of my 7th great grandmother who was a Native American woman. 

I expect that there are other people with Hg=D1 too.

DNA testers can be seen at the

FamilyTreeDNA: Quebec mtDNA Project https://www.familytreedna.com/public/QuebecmtDNAProject?iframe=mtresults

I haven't seen any response, and I am wondering how the process of approval will unfold and how/when I might be notified.

Thank you,

Murray Maloney-2332

WikiTree profile: Marie Chicoine
closed with the note: Category has been created.
in WikiTree Help by Murray Maloney G2G6 Mach 3 (38.7k points)
closed by Murray Maloney
DNA categories can be difficult, so perhaps you should ask the DNA project for assistance. Most of the time, categorists have to ask the DNA project to create the category anyway. :-) (of course, this is what can take several days to accomplish)

Hi, Murray. Not to put a damper on things, but before you spend too much time on the categorization effort...

I'm chiming in only because you wrote that your purpose for a D1 mtDNA category is "to identify the descendants of my 7th great grandmother," and it won't be able to do that; in fact, simply carrying D1 mitochondria won't be able to genealogically associate your 7g-grandmother to anyone.

Consider that even if Marie Boudot was haplogroup D1 (and that alone would take some work to demonstrate, notably a triangulation among living descendants who have very solid paper trails that far back; there's currently no description of mtDNA findings on the WikiTree profiles of Marie or her two daughters and, given that the earliest known ancestors shown at FTDNA projects are self-reported by test-takers and often incorrect, I don't see any research delineated on the Quebec mtDNA project site that investigates those Louise Boudeau/Marie Boudeau lines), simply locating others who are also D1 would provide no correlative association of a genealogical relationship. And after that staggeringly recursive sentence  :-)  it's also worth noting that in the results table of the Quebec mtDNA project only HVR1 and HVR2 variances are shown (I assume differences from the RSRS). One of the two defining mutations for D1 is C2092T, which is in the coding area, not the hypervariable regions. In other words, some of those people grouped together may not even carry the same subclade of D1 and therefor not be related in the genealogical timeframe...but we can't tell from those data alone. For example, all the variants defining D1a, D1b, D1c, D1d, and others exist in the coding region and are not examined by the HVR1 and HVR2 tests. It requires an evaluation of mitochondrial full sequencing to determine the subclades, some of which themselves are thousands of years old.

Under the current Phylotree classifications, D1 is a high-level subclade under D4, which in turn is only one of two basal branches of haplogroup D. There is very little diversity in human mitochondrial DNA to begin with--for genealogical purposes, anyway (shoot, our modern human mtDNA differs from that of the Neanderthals by only about 200 DNA "letters")--and the D1 haplogroup is just too old and too widespread for any conclusions about shared genealogical ancestry to be drawn from the haplogroup alone.

D1 seems to have appeared between roughly 15,000 and 17,000 years ago (Kumar, et al., 2011) and it's found today throughout almost the entirety of North, Central, and South America. There are several million people, maybe tens of million, who are D1 or one of its 39 subclades. Interestingly, however, if you look at the heat map Roberta Estes provides in her 2 March 2017 blog post, it will show that there are gaps of D1 saturation in North America, and that the geographies least likely to show D1 populations are in the northeast where, evidently, Marie Boudot was born, lived, and died. The highest concentrations of D1 are in what is today Brazil.

That said, if it's possible to determine with a degree of certainty that Marie Boudot was D1, then that could be used as strong negating evidence in hypotheses where folks show on paper that they are matriline descendants of Marie but they don't test as D1. In that case, the absence of the defining mutations for D1 would indicate an error in the paper trail; they would all have to carry the D1 variants. But since millions of people in the Americas are D1, using that as a form of positive evidence becomes difficult, and requires that a thoroughly documented paper trail be the first priority for each person tested.

And not to make this any more challenging, but since categories are not auto-populated (i.e., you have to manually select exactly which profiles go into the category one-by-one), it may be some time before you have enough in the category to begin to prove any hypothesis you might have about DNA correlation based on the profiles you identify and add to that category.
I take all of your points.

I have recently been working on the line of a C1c founder from the same region. I have now identified many of her descendants, based on DNA triangulations, and categorized them accordingly. I recognize that there are many more C1c people in the world, but they have not been categorized as C1c, so for now, the category is helping me to round up a collection of people who I can now more easily access as a group.

Eventually, people from other C1c lines will be added to this category, and the pool of people in the list will no longer be limited to the people that I have identified, and that is all for the good.

The Boudot family is a founder family in Gaspe. I intend to do some leg work and start writing the text to support the triangulations, along with their genealogy, as available. Someone has to start the effort, and that seems to be me.

I expect that a D1 category, which will be empty to start, will allow me to identify the members of their lines as my research progresses.

I certainly don't expect to rely upon membership in category as an argument in any proofs. Au contraire, I expect that proof is required to become a member of the category. By way of proof, I would expect evidence of an mtDNA test that shows haplogroup D1 to designate a tester as D1. And I would also expect some genealogical certainty to label members of a matrilineal line as D1.
Thank you for your observations.

Yes, I understand and appreciate that I will have to go through the profiles, one by one.

That is what I have begun to do with C1c. Being able to see the list of C1c people in one place is very helpful to me as a researcher. (See my reply to previous response.)

1 Answer

+7 votes

Hi Murray, as stated on the request form:

"You should receive a reply from the Categorization Project by email within a few days."

by Steven Harris G2G6 Pilot (745k points)
Thank you, Steven.
Still waiting.
Hi Steven, I have been waiting for almost a year now.
Murray, there have been substantial changes to category requests. See this post here: https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1385458/did-you-see-the-new-way-to-request-categorization-help

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