Road block again

Question

Alright so I posted that I was stuck at my great great grandfather. So I currently have myself

Heather born 1987 in Michigan, parents are Michael Todd (b.1950) and Diana Thomas Todd (b.1958), both born in Michigan. My grandfather is Robert Francis Todd (b. 1917, d.2000) and my grandmother Viruss "Jean" Dupuis Todd (b.1924,d.1974). I then have my great grandfather Raymond A Todd (b.1886, d. 1971) married to Ella Pardick (may have other spellings, b. 1893 d. 1974). Then there is my great great grandfather William R Todd married to Anna R Mckee (may be  Mackee). I've come across his birth year as 1857-1860, and his death was in 1928. Anna's life time was 1858-1939.

What I know about William R Todd: He had a half sister named Margaret Todd possibly born in 1856. He also had a brother Samuel Todd possibly born in 1859. All were born in Canada. It is believed that their father is George Todd who was born in Scotland about 1835 and he died in 1865 in Canada. Now I came across a 1861 Canadian census that has William R Todd as 3 at the time of census. But at that time he is living with a John and Mary Todd both born in 1849, and an Elizabeth Todd born about 1860.

I can not find a George Todd who fits the age on the 1851 census.

On the 1871 Census I can find William Todd, but something is always off, like a family member not there like his brother or sister who were supposedly born with in 1-2 years of each other. Or the age of William is off. If you go by the 1857 year, in 1871 he should have been about 14. My understanding is that Margret is a year older than him, while Samuel is two years younger. If I found a William that was 14, his siblings weren't listed. Or if they were, it was more like his sister would have been his mothers age and his brother way younger than him.

I know ages can be off but still I can not find a George with a William, a Margaret , and a Samuel. Nor can I find a mother for any of them. As I mentioned before Margaret is a half sister to the boys. I do know that William put on his marriage certificate that his father was born in Scotland and his mother in Ireland. There have been some William Todds that would say their father was born in Canada and their mother in Ireland. It really has been hard. I'm on family search, ancestry, and still no luck.

According to what was shared with me, George was 25 when he died and apparently the kids all went separate ways. The kids would have been young when he passed away and with no record of their mother I can not trace it back.

If anyone can help...PLEASE HELP!!!!

Thank you.

P.S. I have taken a DNA test and haven't had any matches with the Todd side. I have a GEDCOM as well but could not find matches there either. We are waiting for my dads results to see if we can get any hits off his DNA.

Comments

William Todd

 in the Michigan, U.S., Death Records, 1867-1952

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Name:	William Todd
Gender:	Male
Race:	White
Marital status:	Married
Death Age:	70
Birth Date:	25 Jun 1857
Birth Place:	Canada
Death Date:	1 Apr 1928
Death Place:	Wayne, Michigan, USA
Father:	George Todd
File Number:	001321

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The death certificate posted by Betty Fox lists his profession as painter.  Have you considered the William Todd (13) living in Fergus Ontario in 1871?  He was living with the family of the house painter Stephen Nelson and is listed as apprentice (crossed out) painter. https://www.ancestry.ca/imageviewer/collections/1578/images/4396297_00694?usePUB=true&_phsrc=Bvr241&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=1409601

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Following up on the possible Fergus Ontario connection, Find a Grave has a listing with no photo for a headstone in St. Andrews Auld Presbyterian Kirkyard in Fergus for two wives of a G. H. Todd;

Margaret, 1st wife of G. H. Todd, died May 13, 1852, aged 21 years.

Jane, 2nd wife of G. H. Todd, died Aug. 27, 1861, aged 30 years.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/161761190/margaret-todd

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I have considered these, but again with the Ontario painter....but where are his siblings? I think William and his siblings were all born in Quebec. It is possible George had more than one wife since his daughter Margaret is a half sister to William and Samuel.

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Maybe this one?

Looks like his mother is named Margaret.

George Todd

in the 1850 United States Federal Census

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Name:	George Todd
Gender:	Male
Age:	10
Birth Year:	abt 1840
Birthplace:	Scotland
Home in 1850:	Chateaugay, Franklin, New York, USA
Line Number:	32
Dwelling Number:	643
Family Number:	673
Household Members Age George Todd 41 Margaret Todd 43 Thomas Todd 17 Mary Todd 15 George Todd 10 Margaret Todd 7 James Robb 37 Thomas Driskin 35 William Gill 30 Elijah Babin 38

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Look at this one. There's an unlikely William Todd aged four as head of household.with a Samuel Todd. That's on page 28. On page 29 there is a John Todd aged 32 who is a shoemaker and a Margaret Todd aged 27. Plus a John Todd aged 5.

William Todd

in the 1861 Census of Canada

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Name:	William Todd
Gender:	Male
Marital Status:	Single
Age:	4
Birth Date:	1857
Birth Place:	Lower Canada
Home in 1861:	Godmanchester, Huntingdon, Canada East
Relation to Head:	Head
Religion:	Church of Scotland
Page number:	221
Household Members Age Relationship William Todd 4 Head

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Great find.  But it looks to me like a page is out of order.

The last family on page 27 is that of Martin and Margaret Gratin.  The last person listed is Lavina Gratin age 21.

Page 28 starts with William Todd age 4 but he is not the head of a household as indicated.  There is no entry in the dwelling column.  So, unless a page is out of order, he would be living in the Gratin household.  The bottom of the page introduces a Thomas and Jane Sellars family and the last person listed is Martha Sellars, age 13.

Page 29 starts with Mary Gratin age 17 and lists several younger Gratins.  The bottom of the page introduces John and Margaret Todd and ends with their son John age 5.

Page 30 starts with Mary Sellars, age 12.

So, it looks to me like page 28 and 29 are interchanged and that William and Samuel and children of John and Margaret Todd.

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John,

Unless William was a VERY mature four years old, I would guess that the pages were messed up. So John would be father of William. George would not be father of William?

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Thank you for this information. This is where it all gets lost because I have no definite answer for William Todd. I'm not 100% sure he had siblings at all, or what the names were if he did. Same thing with his parents name.

Someone had George as his father but its possible that isn't correct. Someone else once told me his parents were a Gilbert and Jane but I've only seen I think 1 Gilbert and Jane and not sure if they had children.

I've only come across one person besides myself who took a DNA test and matched with my dad's side. The one person is my known cousin. I have no other matches. My father just took an ancestry dna so we have some time before that comes back. My dad is 71 and the 3rd of 5 children. My dad's older brother...I'm not sure he is even alive. My dad's older sister told me everything they know. My dad doesn't remember alot, his one younger brother doesn't know much and I haven't talked to the other one.

So it's like my Todd side is a great mystery

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I dont think this is right since William Todd was born in 1858-1860 in Quebec  and this says in 1850 George was in New York.

Also I believe my ancestors came in through Michigan since we've all lived there as far as I know (until we were older and moved away). Grandpa, dad, myself, and possible my great grandfather born in Michigan (can't remember where Great-grandfather wad born off the top of my head).

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Heather.  I have looked a bit more into the G. H. Todd who had two wives buried in Fergus ON.  From other records I concluded that his name was Gilbert, not George, and dropped that inquiry.  If your William's father might have been Gilbert rather than George, the Fergus painter could still be your William.

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G.H. Todd (George Heriot Todd) was married twice.  His first wife, Margaret may be William's mother.  His second wife, Janet is the mother of Heriot Margaret "Maggie" Todd:  https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Todd-11654

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I'm not sure about either the George or Janet.  I think that G. H. was Gilbert Hunt Todd and Heriot Maggie's mother was Gilbert's second wife Jane.

In 1851 census.  Gilbert H. Tod (30, storekeeper, Scotland) (transcribed as Tad) and his wife Margaret (20, Scotland) (transcribed as Ted) were living in Nichol Twp. Wellington Co., Canada West which is where Fergus was located at that time.    http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1851&op=pdf&id=e002372059

Headstone in St. Andrews Auld Presbyterian Kirkyard in Fergus for Margaret, 1st wife of G. H. Todd, died May 13, 1852, aged 21 years.  https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/161761190/margaret-todd

In 1861 census.  Gilbert Todd (38, clerk, Scotland) and his wife Jane (28, Ireland) were living in the village of Fergus, Wellington Co., Canada West. Children living with them included Elis. (7), Mary (5), William R. (3) and Henrietta (1).   https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1861&op=&img&id=4391573_00570

Avove headstone in St. Andrews Auld Presbyterian Kirkyard in Fergus for Jane, 2^nd wife of G. H. Todd, died Aug. 27, 1861, aged 30 years. 

In the 1871 census, the widower Gilbert Todd (48, watchman, Scotland) was living in a hotel in Fergus.

Further down on the same page, Henrietta Todd (10) was living with a Henrietta Stuart (30, Ireland). https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1871&op=&img&id=4396615_00009

William Todd (13) was living in Fergus with the painter Stephen Nelson. https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1871&op=&img&id=4396615_00009

I believe that Elizabeth Todd was living on Toronto Twp. in 1871 with the family of Joseph and Eliza Forester.  (Eliza Forester’s maiden name appears to have been Stewart).  https://www.ancestry.ca/discoveryui-content/view/1623660:1578?tid=&pid=&queryId=19b171569c130b74d42d293e4b5ec562&_phsrc=Bvr316&_phstart=successSource

In 1874, Herriot Margaret Todd (18) of Fergus, daughter of G. H. Todd and Jane Stewart, married Udnay Wilson (22) of Elora.  One witness was Elizabeth Todd of Toronto Twp.  https://www.ancestry.ca/imageviewer/collections/7921/images/ONMS932_15-1354?usePUB=true&_phsrc=Bvr309&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=81767788

They lived in Shelburne, Grey East Ontario in 1881 but by 1910 were living in Detroit.

Henrietta Todd lived in and married in Detroit in the 1900s.

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The Gilbert and Jane could be right. Like I said I have no other information about William R Todd than what I haven't already stated

Answer 1

Can you give a location in Canada that you think is most likely?  Also, can you provide a Wikitree ID so we have a start point?

Answer 2

You have many sources on William's profile.  I would like to reformat the bio to make it easier to read and to place the children's information above the references sections.

That being said, the death for a William R. Todd, who died in Ohio should be removed.  That child was less than one year old when he died of infant shock. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X6DF-218

His death certificate indicates that he was the son of Norval Todd and Mary Murphy and his Find A Grave memorial is here:  https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/168422224/william-r_-todd

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I don't know how to delete them. My William Todd passed in Michigan.

Answer 3

William R. Todd, born June 25, 1858, in Canada, died April 1, 1928, in Detroit, Michigan.  There are photographs of the gravestones of William and his wife on Find A Grave:  https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/112709241/william-r-todd

There are memorials for four of his children connected to those of their parents, too.  I will see what I can do to find out about George Todd.

Answer 4

I don't understand the post about George Todd, born 1840, in Scotland.  Do you think he is the father of William, born 1858, in Canada?  

G.H. Todd with two wives, who both died ten years before William is found living in Ferguson, seems a better fit.  Without a living wife, it makes sense that in 1871, at the age of 13, William may have been apprenticed to Stephen Nelson.  Stephen also moved to Michigan, which may explain why William moved from Canada to Michigan.  Stephen's FamilySearch.org here:  https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/9NJ7-Z6X

Comments

George Todd born in 1835 is the father of William R Todd

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The father in the 1850 census, in Chateaugay, NY George Todd was born in 1809, in Scotland.  His son, George was born in 1840, in Scotland.  So, are you saying that the son, who was born in 1840 is the father of William, born 1858, in Canada?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MCY8-K5C

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I dont know. I don't even know if George is his father's name. That is the problem I'm having. I don't know anything past William R Todd, I get a lot of information but it's all different.