Are there any photography experts available to check out a photo attached to a person?

Question

Charles Spurlock (Spurlock-317) has a photograph attached to his page. Charles' wrote his will in 1750, long before photography was in use.  

Are there any photography experts associated with Wikitree that can determine the period that the picture was taken?  Also, are there any websites that we can submit the photo to that could possibly find out if the picture exists elsewhere on the intenet?

Comments

Because the image in question is no longer attached to the profile linked in the question, it can now be found here.

There are comments on the image, in addition to the discussion below.

Answer 1

You can upload it  https://tineye.com/  which will search the web to see if it’s elsewhere.  It looks like that profile needs a lot of work.  He has a mythical Indian wife.  There were no Powhatan Indians left in the 1700’s and interracial marriage was illegal.    

Answer 2

This page has an article featuring the image, may be informative, didn't read it but it's definitely the same image, need to scroll down quite a ways, it's a long piece.

Comments

That page claims the photograph was taken in 1874, and is of a George Harney (a Takelma, and brother of a Frances Johnson) and his first wife Klamath Maggie.

It also says the photograph is from the Smithsonian.

---

Could well be, this image from the Smithsonian shows a younger version, certainly looks very similar.

---

Whoever it is, it is definitely NOT Charles Spurlock and his wife, and should be detached from that profile.

To prevent it simply vanishing, I've added my images space page to it, so when Charles Spurlock is removed, it will simply "transfer" over to Space:ADWP until we can find it a permanent "home".

---

Good idea Melanie.

If it is George Harney then he's here on WikiTree, Harney-1284, perhaps whoever is managing his profile could shed light or would be happy to have the pic linked there.

WikiTree profile: George Harney

---

Linked from George's profile is a family page where there are photographs that closely resemble this one -- including one of George's sister Agnes Harney Howard with her husband, Joe Howard.  The pose is similar, the faces similar -- but not the same, so are obviously different people.  If closely examined (as a non-expert on facial recognition) I would say that Agnes in the photograph with Joe Howard, closely enough resembles the man with the woman and child to be a sibling, or close cousin.

I am not 100% convinced the "Charles Spurlock" photo IS George Harney, but he is definitely a better candidate.

Perhaps someone would be interested enough to contact Julie Norman, Secretary, Agnes Pilgrim Legacy Fund, and ask if they know about "our" photograph.

---

I did a quick facial comparison online using the two images, there was a 77% match between the two men. But there was a 71%match between the solo George and Klamath Maggie, so don't think the result could be trusted. There are a lot of facial similarities but sadly I couldn't find the a better version of the couple on the Smithsonian site.

Perhaps LaMyra Morton would also be interested, can we ping users from G2G?

---

I have posted an invitation to both profiles, for the managers of them to join our discussion.   (I am aware that a co-manager of Charles Spurlock's profile is the person who asked this question, but he has not yet posted again, and may not be fully aware of how far we have just travelled.  )

---

Ahh yes, that's good, thanks. I was just wondering if I should go post a comment but you're well ahead of me.

---

Working towards the same goal/s, thinking tends towards the same direction/s.  

---

On Facebook, the solo picture of George is attached to a group called Native North American Indian - Old Photos.  The url is https://www.facebook.com/NNAIOP/photos/ol-ha-the-aka-forehead-with-hair-aka-george-harney-the-son-of-shulth-tah-sah-aka/10150220384330578/

In addition to the picture, there are some informative comments.

His birth name was Ol-ha-the.  Which translates to Forehead With Hair.

---

Agnes Harney Howard was married to Joe Howard

"Olhatha" George Harney (Takelma) 1837-1900. Elected first Chief, Confederated Tribes of Siletz, 1870.

https://agnesbakerpilgrim.org/legacy-links/photos/

Answer 3

I want to thank all who have responded to my question. A lot of work went into it in a short time.

Again, thank you.

Answer 4

I'm not a photo expert, but the photo is definitely from the late 19th century.  The woman's collar and bow make me think 1880's and that would be in keeping with the short time he was married to Maggie.  I don't think the photo (with the woman and baby) is from the 1874 D.C. visit.  I don't believe Harney had a wife then.

I can see the same photo has been attached to Spurlock on FS, so it is probably being spread on other genealogy sites.  

I started this family in the wake of his granddaughter, Agnes Pilgrim's death and took some of my information from her site, which has changed some since she passed.

There is also an artist drawing labeled Ol-ha-the on the Smithsonian website.  It has has him in Indian dress.  It doesn't look at all like the later photos to me, so I'm not sure... but I'm sure he was much younger and the image was idealized by the artist:  https://www.si.edu/object/archives/components/sova-naa-photolot-176-ref11846 There is a later photo taken from the same angle on Agnes' website, if anyone wishes to compare those:https://agnesbakerpilgrim.org/legacy-links/photos/

Comments

Having a third exemplar is very useful for facial comparison LaMyra. I just ran the same test as yesterday and the results are more convincing this time. Using the three images of Ol-ha-the the results are 94% match between the two younger solo images and 82% match with the fella in the later couple photo. The set of his eyebrows, slightly squint right eye and length of his nose are a very good match in my view. I personally have no problem saying they are the same person separated by perhaps 6-10 years or so.

The site I used to compare the images is:

https://www.betafaceapi.com/demo.html

In case anyone else wishes to have a go with this or other images ...