What is the evidence for Evan Ragland's medieval ancestry?

+14 votes
2.9k views

Evan Ragland, the Virginia immigrant, has a fascinating tale of being kidnapped from England and sold as an indentured servant in Virginia.  It seems that Ragland is a very uncommon name, and that there is only one likely Evan Ragland who appears in English parish records.  Is that sufficient evidence of his origin and parents?

This question, together with doubts about his illustrious medieval ancestry, is discussed at length at the gen-medieval forum here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/OQzO6ZL9olY

Douglas Richardson made a noncommital comment on this thread, so he definitely knows about the proposed Evan Ragland ancestry, but he didn't take sides.

How should we handle the proposed Evan Ragland lineage here at WikiTree?  I'm inclined to think there is sufficient evidence to warrant keeping the link between Evan and his parents, at least for the time being.  The question of his more distant ancestry is a different can of worms, however.

WikiTree profile: Evan Ragland
in Genealogy Help by Living Schmeeckle G2G6 Pilot (105k points)
edited by Living Schmeeckle

Interesting. The family-traditional origin story of Edward Crosland of Virginia (my 5g) also involves a kidnapping in Britain and sale into indentured servitude in the Colony.

Was that a common occurrence, or a common legend, or both, I wonder? :)

I've read that it was a very common occurrence, kidnapping English youngsters to sell in Virginia, until a sea captain got hanged for the practice in 1679 -- right around the time that African slavery took off in Virginia.

5 Answers

+6 votes
Great to read. Can of worms, indeed.

I think the connection to his parents is speculation. The somewhat uncommon name is what I see in the pro column. If we had a time and place with good records, where we could confidently scan them to confirm just how rare the name was and that we don't find any other potential theories, I'd be more inclined. I don't think that is the case, though.

The twist on the kidnapping is interesting, too. How would you handicap that legend? When it is supported by proof, I'd be pretty confident. As just a family legend? Hard to be too confident.

In the end, it seems like a connection where we may just never know. Could it be? Sure. 95% confident? I would not be that confident.

Thanks for posting it and sharing the link. This was a fun one to read.
by PM Eyestone G2G6 Mach 3 (36.5k points)
I'm going to play the Devil's Advocate here, and argue the case for keeping the lineage.  (I've also added some "sources" to Evan's profile.)

1.  There is a tradition in the Virginia Ragland family that the family origin was Welsh.

2.  It appears that Evan Ragland the immigrant was well-educated and from at least a middle-class background, as shown by the fact that his master first made Evan his secretary and then allowed Evan to marry his daughter.

3.  The names of Evan's sons Thomas and John correspond to the names of brothers (and father) of Evan Ragland of St. Decuman's, England.  (Evan the immigrant also named a son for himself, and it appears that his other son Stephen was named for his father-in-law.)

4.  Ragland is a very rare surname; the grandfather of Evan of St. Decuman's changed the spelling from the Welsh "Raglan" (without the "d"), and this Welsh name is also very rare.

5.  Charles Ragland extensively researched the name in 17th-century  England (not hard because there were so few members), and it seems that the name Evan simply doesn't appear in the relevant time frame, except for Evan of St. Decuman's, whose MATERNAL grandfather was named Evan.

So this doesn't seem to be shot-in-the-dark speculation, but rather a plausible connection where the available snippets point to a single conclusion, much like the Veatch and Aubrey cases.  And as strange as it seems, Evan of St. Decuman's descent from Richard III also seems to be likely -- this wasn't just made up out of thin air.

I hear you. I think much of what you lay out is already in the soc.gen string.

Nat Taylor discusses your Welsh origins (your point 1), the author's exhaustive search (point 5), the apparent rareness of the name (point 4). While interesting, and certainly possibly, Taylor concludes:

The case boils down to the fact that the author found no other Even Ragland in the course of his search.  There's an interesting discussion of family traditions (abduction onto a ship; origins in Wells) that seem to support the possibility that he was right.  The whole thing has to remain conjecture, though...

What appears new in your devil's advocate points are "he was possibly middle class" (point 2), names of the sons were Thomas and John (point 3), and that the boy who was baptized in Somersetshire had a MATERNAL grandfather also named Evan (part of your point 5). In reverse order:

  • I don't understand the emphasis on MATERNAL. We have a record of an Evan Ragland's baptism, we know who his parents were, and we know he also had a grandfather named Evan. What does emphasisng that do to support the connection to Evan Ragland of Virginia? 
  • Thomas and John? To the extent Ragland is unique and point 4 has merit, point 3 seems to be proportionally dubious. This seems like your furthest stretch.  
  • Interesting take on the 'middle class' information. If this is the only 'new' information, though, I don't think it moves the needle much. 

I don't think you or I are in either the camp where we think it is absoultely true or ridiculous to even consider. We're both probably somewhere in the middle. It is plausible. The surname is unique. 

It sounds like you would give more credit to the author than I would. 

If I had a dollar for every family historian who, after their exhaustive search, thoughtfully concluded their ancestor could only have been somebody who also happens to potentially have an illustrious pedigree... well, I'd be ancestry.com.

Well, to continue the discussion, freely acknowledging that you and others may be skeptical about much of the following:

1.  I disagree with Taylor's conclusion that "the case boils down to the fact that the author found no other Even Ragland in the course of his search."  I think that there is other relevant evidence here, but it seems that the weight I place on certain snippets is different from your assessment.

2.  I am inclined to challenge the choice of words you used to summarize  Point 2 in my previous comment.  You used the phrase "he was possibly middle class," where I would use the phrase "he was evidently middle class."  At the time and place, literacy and numeracy (the prerequisites for being a secretary) presumed middle-class background at least.

3.  I am inclined to challenge your summary dismissal of my discussion of the similarity of given names.  At the time, it was the norm to give children names from the immediate families of the parents, and the fact that Evan used the names Thomas and John for sons makes it logical to look for Ragland families where these names also appear.  And lo and behold -- the only known family with both Thomas and John also has Evan.  If you can find another Ragland family of the same general time period that uses the names Thomas and John, that will weaken my argument.

4.  Perhaps in my earlier post, I didn't place enough emphasis on the exceeding rarity of this surname.  A search of the IGI for Ragland baptisms in the 17th century comes up with only 30 records, which are easily broken down into family groups.   Even though there were certainly other Raglands in parishes not covered by the IGI, this family is SUPER small.

5.  My earlier point about Evan's MATERNAL grandfather shows where the name Evan entered the Ragland family.  Evan simply wasn't a Ragland family name until Thomas Ragland's marriage to the daughter of Evan Morgan.  Once again, I seem to place greater weight on the names of the children than you do.

I'd like to add one further point:  In the general time period of Evan's migration to Virginia, there were three principal points that shipped out indentured servants: London, Bristol, and Liverpool.  See http://www.pricegen.com/origins-of-colonial-chesapeake/  For the common practice of kidnapping English children to sell in Virginia, see http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/prescott/636/ St. Decuman is on the coast in the general vicinity of Bristol, which is the type of origin we would expect to find if the two Evans are indeed one and the same.

I carefully examined Charles Ragland's books (a couple years ago, while investigating the false allegation that my ancestor William Davis descended from the Raglands), and his detailed description of a late medieval manor house is useful background reading for anyone who researches the landed gentry of this period.  With that said, he clearly relied on secondary sources for the ancestry of Evan Ragland of St. Decuman, which of course isn't up to Douglas Richardson's standards.  (And his omission of documentation in his second volume on the descendants of Evan Ragland tends to raise eyebrows, although he did deposit his notes at a repository in North Carolina, and his conclusions for the family in America seem to have held up well for the most part.)

Finally, I think there is a clear course for further research:  collect existing documentation for all Raglands in the 17th century (starting with vital records, wills, and Raglands listed in the 1641 subscription to Parliament's remonstrance; and extending to less accessible land records and vestry records), and see if they can all be arranged in connected family groups.  Much of this research has already been done, if it is still accessible.  The argument AGAINST the two Evans being one and the same is based on the supposition that there was an unknown Evan born in the 1650s to a different Ragland family.  I suspect that the total number of Ragland families is so small (as well as being wealthy enough to appear in at least SOME records) that a thorough list of possible fathers could be identified, with each and every potential father compared to the likelihood that Thomas Ragland of St. Decuman's was the father of Evan Ragland, immigrant to Virginia.  Perhaps we can turn such a task over to descendants of Evan Ragland, of which there are already a handful here at WikiTree.  It would be a fascinating study...

I certainly appreciate your thoughts on this. I was also playing 'devil's advocate.' The given names, for example, is a type of evaluation that I certainly appreciate. I just don't think that with given names like Thomas or John (or Richard or William) this type of evaluation is very conclusive for the time period. 

I agree this is one that has plenty of potential for further research. Given your points on Charles Ragland's books (particularly his second edition) and Taylor's conclusions about the first edition, a future researcher would do well to make the case without relying on these works.

If I were a Ragland descendant, I woud be pretty hard at work on this one. smiley

 

Richard III has no descendants. But, he is a cousin of the Raglands. My mother is a Ragland and I am 1st cousin, 16 times removed from King Richard III
+5 votes
For what it's worth, my brother and I are direct, Ragland descendants of Evan Ragland. My brother's yDNA is I2BI. That haplogroup is commonly found among descendants of the Norman conquerors of England, and that's consistent with the story of Evan being descended from one of the Norman invaders who was given Ragland castle as his reward for his role in he invasion. Unfortunately there are very few Raglands in 23andMe database.
by
A good reason for me to get a DNA test.

 I know that Evan Ragland was my ancestor.
Hi, Judy. My mother is also (if paper records are accurate) a direct descendant of Evan Ragland--and of course I am too. Her maiden name was Ragland. On 23andMe she is "Barbara Magness" and on GEDMatch she is Kit No. M043835. If you're on GEDMatch, please see if she's among your relatives. Also happy to share with you on 23andMe. I manage her and my profiles. She's Barbara Magness; I'm Orin Hargraves. I've found connections to other people on GEDMatch that I suspect are via the Raglands but I have not been able to verify it.
Hello,  new to this site, so be patient.  My maternal Grandmother was 'Ragland" from Searcy co., Arkansas and  descendant from Evan Ragland according to family tree.
I just discovered this part of G2G and saw the part about the Raglands. My maternal grandmother was a Ragland and I have traced some of her ancestors. I show Evan Ragland(1656-1717) as being my 7th great-grandfather. I found this through Ancestry.com. Anyway, I found your comments VERY interesting!

 

Regards,

David Wallace
I am late since these postings are in 2015.  Evan Ragland is my  9th great grandfather by his son Stephen. From Stephen Ragland  that died in 1747 in Northampton Co., North Carolina. I descend from his daughter Agnes that married first to Ephraim Merritt and when he died she married my grandfather Joseph Langston 1760 in Granville Co., North Carolina.

I brought Evan Ragland 's lineage up with the social medieval group that Douglas Richardson is connected with,, I agree that there are errors in Charles Ragland's book I saw in a library in Memphis, Tn.  I never put much credibility to the William Davis story.  In the discussion group of course there were several that disagree with the Morgan line especially going to  the Berkeley lineage, etc.  I know especially of one error, namely my Stephen Ragland being married to a Mary Hudson. He was not. He married a Mary unknown. The Hudson DNA Association stated that Mary married Samuel Bunch, and this couple are grandparents of Barack Obama.

Therefore,  I do not know  with certainty on Evan Ragland's parents being Thomas Ragland  and Jane Morgan.  I do wish that there would be an answer to this.
Ssorry, double posting.
@Orin Hargraves, if you are still following this thread, I do match your mother on GEDMatch.  My kit is M764370.  I am a Ragland by birth.  (I'm adopted and use my adoptive family name of Richards.)  So you definitely have Ragland matches.  I show that Evan is my 9th great grandfather through his son Thomas.
Orin, sorry for delayed response. This is my first time back since original post. I checked 23 and Me relatives and did not see your mother.
+2 votes

What evidence is there for the baptism of Evan Ragland (31 March 1656 at St Decumans, Somerset) and the marriage of his parents Thomas Ragland and Jane Morgan, also at St Decumans (per the Ragland genealogy)? 

The baptism record of Evan's alleged father Thomas Ragland DOES indeed appear in Stogumber, Somerset in 1628, together with his parents' marriage there in 1626/7, per the transcriptions at https://www.freereg.org.uk/ -- verifying that generation of the Ragland lineage. 

And there was a couple named Thomas and Jane Ragland, who were indeed having children at St Decumans from 1656 through 1674 -- once again per the transcriptions at https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_queries/5ac3e8ecf4040b122aa2228e -- with the first entry being a DAUGHTER "Johan" baptized 31 Mar. 1656, the same day as the alleged baptism of Evan Ragland the kidnapped immigrant to Virginia. 

There's no Evan mentioned at all, at least in the transcriptions.  Is there an error in the transcription?  Or did Charles Ragland falsify a record? Or did wishful thinking coincide with bad handwriting? 

by Living Schmeeckle G2G6 Pilot (105k points)
Image is on Ancestry. It is easy to read and very clearly says Johan the daughter of Thomas Ragland and Jane his wife was baptised the 31st day of May .Somerset Heritage Service; Taunton, Somerset, England; Somerset Parish Records, 1538-1914;  St Decuman, Watchet.Reference Number: D\P\st.d/2/1/1
+3 votes

On a related note, this Evan Ragland currently has a line to Edward III, king of England:

1. Evan is the son of Jane (Morgan) Ragland [confident] 
2. Jane is the daughter of Evan ap James Morgan [confident] 
3. Evan is the son of James ap Thomas Morgan [unknown confidence] 
4. James is the son of Cecily (Herbert) Morgan [unknown confidence] 
5. Cecily is the daughter of Elizabeth (Berkeley) Herbert [confident] 
6. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Neville) Covert [confident] 
7. Elizabeth is the daughter of George Neville [confident] 
8. George is the son of Edward (Neville) de Neville [confident] 
9. Edward is the son of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG [confident] 
10. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [confident] 
11. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

This line needs to be broken at 4-5.  The will of Thomas Morgan survives and in it he names his wife Cecille, sons William and Henry, and daughter Florence. Following his death in 1565, Thomas was succeeded by his son William; on the death of William in 1584 without issue, he was succeeded by Anne, the only daughter of his brother Henry. A monument to Cecily Herbert following her death names her children - William, George, Henry and Florence.  Thomas Morgan and Cecily Herbert did not have a son James.

O. Morgan and T. Wakeman. Notices of Pencoyd Castle and Langstone, volume 7. (1864): page 10

by Joe Cochoit G2G6 Pilot (259k points)
It could be that the line needs to be broken at 1-2.  I haven't found any marriage record for Thomas Ragland and wife Jane in St. Decuman's parish (as claimed by the Ragland genealogy), but they did have children baptized in St. Decuman's.
+1 vote
fyi- i just uploaded the will of Stephen Ragland, he was my 6th great grandfather
by Wendy Browne G2G6 Mach 1 (17.2k points)

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