+4 votes

Thank y ou
in Policy and Style by Bettye Carroll G2G6 Mach 4 (46.1k points)
retagged by Keith Hathaway
As a general rule, the LNAB should be based on records that indicate what the person's name was at birth. What do you kmow abou the person you are inquiring about?

1 Answer

+2 votes
Best answer
van der Wal and/or van der Grift (no pasting them all together and no capitals for the ''van'' and ;''der'' ) if they are from Holland that is ,maybe you have a link to the profile(s) ??
by Bea Wijma G2G6 Pilot (276k points)
selected by Bettye Carroll

I am helping to find, and tag incorrect LNAB, and I am wondering when does one rule supersede another rule. The rule for Last Name At Birth: This is the name they had (or would have been known by) when they were born. In most cases, it is one word. Exeptions to this are 'de Vere' and families that had 'St' as part of their name (such as St John, St Aubyn, St Hilary, St Liz, St Pol, St Sauverur). See below.

PREFIXES IN LAST NAME AT BIRTH FIELD:  1. Names like St John: "St" is a prefix which stays with the surname; that is, "St John" goes in the LNAB field, and St is not dropped nor separated out into the prefix field. Do not put a period after the St and do not spell out the word Saint. 2. The common ‘de’, ‘du’, ‘le’, ‘la’, ‘de la’, ‘von’, ‘van’ before a surname does not go in the LNAB field; it goes with the surname in the Current Last Name field while the surname, ONE word, goes in the LNAB. Example: Last name at birth: "Villefort", Current Last Name: "de Villefort". The exception to this is de Vere. Members of this family should have both words in the LNAB field. 3. Names that include ‘Fitz’: Fitz- names should be written with mid-caps, that is, a capital letter for the father's name. For example, write FitzAlan, FitzGeoffrey, FitzGerald, etc. This is the same pattern as used in names with Mac-: MacMurray, MacDonald, etc. Do not include a space.

Knowing the general rule for PREFERRED NAME is 'This is the name of the person as they were generally known/called/referred to.' I have found a number of van der Wal, that are writting their name van der Wal. Most of the Vandergriff, and Vandergrift surnames that I am finding are written as one word.

So, my question is, 'do we just leave their name as they preferr, as in

van der Wal, and/or Vandergriff/Vandergrift?

Oh, and a list of the mentioned surnames will be found by typing them in search.  

Thank you  

Hi Caroll

In Holland of course also LNAB is LNAB ,but we have a lot of last names with ''van'' or ''van de'' or ''van der'' or just ''der'' etc ,the way of writing is totally different from the American way of writing these ,in Holland these words are always written without capital V or D and just the last part so like van der Wal ,Wal is the let's say most  important part and that is written with Capital .Pasting all of these together as if it was one word is totally wrong (if they are/were from Holland or Germany that is ) Sometimes people didn't have or were not registered with last names at all ,they only were registered with patronyms of their father,because there is no box for the patronym we now for these people use the LNAB box for the patronym ,otherwise we would get millions of UNKNOWNS and they would never get a last name because the patronym was all they had for last name. so guess it depends were people were from what is the ''rule'' see here :http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Name_Fields#Use_their_conventions_instead_of_ours , I understand it can be very difficult to know what LNAB it should be sometimes ,guess if you really don't have a clue ,just ask for help smiley

Some projects have their own naming conventions though so for these you should check the naming conventions of the project .

good luck and if you need help with Dutch peoples names just ask I ,and many others, can always try if we can help find some Dutch or German records if you need them to decide whats best for LNAB


Thank you, Bea Wijma, for your answer to my question! I appreciate this very much.  smiley


Thank you, Bea Wijma, for this and the follow up answer to my question! Appreciate this very much! smiley   

You're welcome ,that's what WT is about eeh? Helping eachother smiley

greetings and thanks from Holland! Bea

Thank You Caroll smiley

Bea Wijma, you seem knowledgeable regarding the LNAB convention for Dutch descndants.  I recently ran into a "snag" as I finally worked my way back to my ancestors from New Amsterdam (NY) and found that there is a New Netherlands project with a coordinator who is using Van_Lent and similar naming conventions as a last name.  From your comment above, it sounds as if "special projects" get permission to use different naming conventions from the instructions for LNAB given in the WikiTree guide.  If that is true, where does that permission come from.  Also, you say your are working to find and tag incorrect LNAB.  I don't know whether any LNAB are incorrect or not, but could you take a look at the descendants of Van_Lent-17.  It seems that the naming conventions used in this family are resulting in many duplications, for example:  

  1. Jacobus Van Lent ancestors (1643 - )
  2. Jacob Abraham Riker ancestors (October 18, 1643 - 1643)

Hi Janne,

This is one of the reasons there was suggested we should start a Dutch Roots Project ,especially for all profiles from before ca 1811.The New Netherlands project is a large but really great project ,with probably thousands of profiles,a lot of them (whole famlies) uploaded with gedcoms and also a lot of them were abandoned after they were uploaded,the abandoned ones than were adopted some by leaders/ coordinators of the NNS project and some by other WT members,so yes lots and lots of duplicates,one of the goals of the New Netherlands project is to merge all these duplicates and find accurate sources/prove for what exactly was LNAB also for these people,since in Holland there were many people not using a last name ,only patronym .

So we ,all project members ,now are working together on finding most accurate LNAB or patronym and sources.Now there's more knowledge about the patronymic system used in Holland ,before many people just didn't know and so the American naming system was used for the Dutch ancestors as well,so that's why some of them still have possibly incorrect LNAB(The pasted names etc) but that's why: http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Name_Fields#Use_their_conventions_instead_of_ours

The NNS project is a huge job/project and it's just impossible to change and work on every family/profile at once,so now people are working hard to merge and correct family by family to get the best and most accurate result.

If you have accurate sources for what was LNAB etc,etc please add these to the Bio's of the profiles you mentioned, accurate sources are,birth,baptism,marriage records,last wills or other sources in which their names are mentioned and spelled ,etc.You can leave a message (post) at the profiles you added/edited something in the Bio,the manager than will receive a message and maybe the family than will get some attention as well.You also can start a G2G of course if you have questions about any of the profiles,or you can send a request to be added as manager for the profile if you have a lot of sources/info and as a descendant of these family's.Well hope this answers your question ,if you still have questions just say so and I'll try to explain ,I'm no pro though ,just collaberating here with all members and trying to find accurate sources for the profiles smiley

Thnx for asking and greets from Holland 


In the meanwhile, additional Jacobus and Jacobs continue to be added.  Without the "other name" fields being populated, the profiles that already exist are not offered by WikiTree as a potential candidate that should be checked out before adding a new profile.  

Normally, I would suggest a potential merge, but have been told by the coordinator for the New Netherlands project that he does not want the "usual" merge capability to be used for families identified as part of that project.  Some of the profiles have had "suggestions" that they are duplicates for more than a year.

We just now are starting the Dutch Roots Project ,especially for these and other things smiley

Maybe you're interested ? http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project:Dutch_Roots

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