Have I missed any obvious possibilities?

Question

I have been looking for my paternal great-grandfather Tom Scott's parents/ancestors for over 50 years with little luck. I would appreciate any ideas about what to do next.

Comments

(Can't help you answer your question but just wanted to acknowledge the way you documented your effort to date on the profile. Nice work. Good luck.)

Answer 1

I have nothing to add to your search for parents for Tom, but as FamilySearch is always adding images, I thought I would pass along that this marriage record (with image) is now available for Tom and Eva:

"Florida, County Marriages, 1830-1957," database with images, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q244-8LXY : 22 July 2021), Thomas Larance Scott and Eva Leona Hurst, 25 Apr 1896; citing Marriage, , Pasco, Florida, United States, Florida State Archives and various county clerks of courts; FHL microfilm 1,672,936.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q244-8LXY

Comments

Thanks! I had a different version of it, with less info.

Answer 2

Here is Tom's wife's mother's obituary:

• Callie Donia Hurst (13 Jun 1933)

Here is Lawrence Smith's obiturary:

• Lawrence Smith (8 Jan 1959 • Tampa, Florida)
  • This obituary has misstated the step-daughter as daughter.

Comments

Thank You!

Answer 3

I thought researching your grandfather, Anion Scott, may lead to more information since he has such and unusual name. I found an obituary where he was a pallbearer. I'm not sure of the role of pallbearers as far as if they are normally relatives, friends, or church people, but here it is:

PALMER, MRS. LENA FLORA - Funeral services for Mrs. Lena Flora Palmer, 65, of 3011 Caracas St., who died Friday morning at her home will be held Monday afternoon at 4 o'clock from Wilson Sammon Co. Funeral Home with Rev. J. Earl Lewis of the Belmont Hights Baptist Church to officiate. Interment in Woodlawn Cemetery. Active pallbearers: Frank Visper, Alton Edwards, Anion Scott, john R. Jones, Jack Halsten and Arthur Cowart. Honorary pallbearers: Eddie Curry, R. R. Flint, B. B. Harwell, John ing, George Rief, M. C. Stritling and John L. Royal. ARRANGEMENTS BY WILSON SOMMON CO.

The Tampa Times (Tampa, Florida); digital images, Newspapers.com (https://www.newspapers.com : accessed 5 Feb 2022); citing Saturday, 27 May 1944, pg. 2, col. 1.

Comments

I'm sort of guessing the pallbearers are church people since Anion was an honorary pallbearer in 1952:

The Tampa Times (Tampa, Florida); digital images, Newspapers.com (https://www.newspapers.com : accessed 5 Feb 2022); citing Friday, 25 April 1952, pg. 2, col. 8. It was for Mrs. Mary Josephine Jones of the Riverside Baptist Church.

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You may be missing a sibling:

SPRY, GRACIE MARIE - Gracie Marie Spry, two-year-old child of Mr. and Mrs. John Ruis, of 3211 Giddens, died Friday at a hospital. She is survived by her parents and grandparents, Mr. and Mrs. Lawrence Smith, and the following uncles and aunts, Mr. and Mrs. Ed Scott, Mr. and Mrs. Anion Scott and Mr. and Mrs. Irvin Scott. Services will be held Monday at 10 o'clock at the Belmont Heights Baptist church with Rev. J. E. Lewis in charge. Burial in Richland cemetery. Arrangements in charge of Greenman Home.

The Tampa Tribune (Tampa, Florida); digital images, Newspaper.com (https://www.newspapers.com : accessed 5 Feb 2022); citing Sunday, 26 Dec 1943, pg. 2, col. 3.

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Thanks for looking. Lena Flora Palmer was my maternal grandmother. I had not considered submitting my entire tree on my mother's side, since I had loads of info from that line.

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Thank you! I was not aware of Gracie Spry. The Ruis family connection was via a grand Aunt Alma, (daughter of Tom Scott, married name Ruis or Ruwis) I have yet to add.

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The records I am seeing has Elma marrying a John Rewis.

She is listed as Mrs. Elma Rewis in her step-father's (Lawrence Smith) obituary.

• WikiTree:  Elma (Scott) Ruis (1907 - 1992) (Note: Ruis has been corrected on her profile and changed to Rewis)

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Hi Thomas!  You mentioned that you already have lots of information on the Palmer side.  That's wonderful!  Would you consider taking some time to make that information available here on WikiTree?  Without a doubt someone will be very grateful someday.

Cheers

Shirlea

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Yes, Elma Scott was John Rewis' wife. I have not added that info to the tree yet.

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You just need to change Ruis to Rewis on her profile so those searching for it can find it.

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Thanks for the reminder. Done.

Answer 4

Forgive me if I have not read all the information carefully enough.  You have a date and place of death.  My understanding is that in the U.S. death certificates were usually created after 1900.  Have you contacted the county where he died to inquire about obtaining a copy?

Comments

Thanks for the input. Yes, I have contacted the county and also Florida State Vital records and state archives. There is no record of his death anywhere. His grave marker and Eva Leona Hurst/Scott/Smith marker was placed in Richland Baptist Church graveyard by me in 1990. In Florida, statewide registration of deaths began in 1899, but was not generally complied with until 1917.

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Except of course in the newspapers and the attempt to try some possible murderers! A very interesting example of how the official records might not have registered something that actually happened....

Answer 5

This record shows Eva Leona Smith's parents as Jim Taylor and Callie D. Jones. Therefore, her last name at birth would be Taylor, not Hurst. Her birth is recorded as 11 Aug 1880 in Hernando (County?), Florida.

• https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/3468912:60901

This record has Caladonia Jones marrying James Taylor on 24 Jul 1873 in Sumter (County?), Florida.

• https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/901357459:61369

This 1880 Census (3 June 1880) shows Callie Taylor as widowed living in Sumterville, Sumter County, Florida with her parents and brother.

• https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/39562611:6742

This record has Callie Jones marrying Madison Horst on 29 Nov 1880 in Sumter (County?), Florida.

• https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/901357888:61369

This record has E L Heurat marrying T L Scott on 25 Apr 1896 in Pasco, Florida.

• https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/901560918:61369

Comments

Thanks for the help.
That social security record is not accurate. Eva Leona Hurst was born to Madison Hurst and Callie Jones-Taylor Hurst.
And, Callie she was born a Jones, married James Taylor. Henry Taylor was her son.
That is a correct date of marriage for Callie and Madison Hurst. Eva was born the next year.
Yes, Eva Hurst and Tom Scott were married in April 1896, although Hurst name was miss-transcribed from the record.

Answer 6

What did you make of this family in the 1880 Census? https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9YBS-H3H?i=13&cc=1417683&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AMNZ3-9QN

I wasn't able to see whether you had referenced it, though you do mention Hernando, Florida.

Comments

It looks like William Smith's wife there is Georgia Anne McDaniels.

For William to say that SE Scott and her younger brothers are his siblings, we would have to investigate the possibilities that they are his or his wife's biological half-siblings, or his or his wife's step-siblings.  Have you checked back on William and Georgia Anne?

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Thanks for your input. If memory serves me, possible siblings or step siblings was the approach I took originally when I began searching in the 1970's. I never found any indication or record showing familial relationship. Scott family tradition was that the Smith family had simply taken in the Scott's because both Scott parents were dead.
I tried tracking George, S.E. and William in later census records, but without 1890 records could not make the connection back to Hernando/Pasco County origins. To complicate matters, the Hernando County courthouse burned down in the 1880's before the county split into Hernando and Pasco County, so many records were lost forever.
Where did you see William Smith wife's name as Georgia Ann? I only see G.A. or Georgia Ann Smith living in other states or counties.

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Georgia Ann McDaniel married to William Smith is the daughter of Campbell McDaniel and Matilda Rasher from Georgia.  Her parents and several of her siblings (watch for her brother named Green McDaniel) can be found in the various Hernando area censuses.  Her subsequent children give her maiden name upon occasion.  Have a look at the various sources I've linked to her in Ancestry: https://www.ancestry.ca/family-tree/person/tree/163928258/person/222350341293/facts

Now, none of that helps say anything about the connection with the Scott family except this:  SE and George were born in Georgia with parents born in Georgia, according to that 1880 census where somebody recorded them as sibs with William and Georgia Anne.  

Possibly the connection between their families started back in Georgia.  

You could try looking for a Scott family in the neighbourhood of the McDaniels back in Irwin, Georgia.

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Thank you for the info, but the link you provided takes me to a login that must be for you, even when I am already logged in. I can't see your info there. I looked for Georgia Ann McDaniel in Ancestry and Familysearch, but no luck yet. I'll keep trying.

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The link provided above was to the Ancestry Canadian website.

Here's the link to the English website:

• https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/163928258/person/222350341293/facts

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Thanks Tommy!  

I think sometimes if our links to Ancestry are only for one jurisdiction, we can just swap out the pertinent bit, like .com for .ca, or .uk, or whatever

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Thanks for showing me the Georgia Ann McDaniel connection. I did a query in Familysearch for any Scott family in Irwin County, GA, and also queried for George or Victoria Scott in Georgia and Florida. Nothing helpful seen in the results.

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I have found that upper case 'S' in handwriting is quite variable and tends to be mis-transcribed as 'L' and 'T' and various others....but the 'Sc' should have been a big clue---but i have a family with the surname Sword whose record i couldn't find for the longest time because it had been mis-transcribed (and therefore indexed) as Levard.  I would really encourage you not to rely on automated search functions of Family Search or Ancestry, but to skim through the images of the actual documents yourself.

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The same surname, Sword, was mis-transcribed in another record as Carrd.  Solving that one required a careful review of just how that person wrote their different uppercase letters.

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I would start with the censuses where the McDaniel and Smith families actually are enumerated themselves, on the basis of the Scott family being known to them as neighbours or former neighbours.

We see that Thomas, only 8 years old in 1880, was born in Florida, so his mother at least was in Florida in 1872.   It might turn out to be useful to try to figure out when the Smith/McDaniel connection arrived in Florida (based on the birthplaces of children of Georgia Ann's sibs).

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Don't give up on looking for S E Scott, either - try looking for her with possible full names.  

Sarah/Sara/Sally/Sallie/Sadie is far and away most likely

Susan/Susie/Susannah etc is next most likely

Sophia/Sophie and all possible mis-spellings is in the running.

Other S names with respectable distribution: Samantha, Sab(r)ina, Serena, Selina, Sylvia, Salome and Sybil, all with their potential mis-spellings and nicknames, but on a search, those would come up without having to be searched separately, usually.

For her middle name, E is most likely to be Elizabeth or Eliza, with Ellen a distant third.

That's just going by the odds.

Cheers

Shirlea

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Thanks for the reminder. I've been looking at records for so long that I started with the old roll film machines, oftentimes without a printed name index to go by. Started with soundex spellings index cards. Who uses soundex anymore?
Over the years I have had similar revelations about spellings and mis-transcriptions as you. One Hurst family I was looking for was discovered to be HUNT in the index. HURS in another.
Don't even ask about my mother's maternal grandfather Heinrich Noegel (indexed NOGEL, NAGEL, NAGLE).
Usually I page back and forth for several pages around a positive match to see if neighbors were more family.
From Ancestry.com, I also have a DNA mystery that goes back to Liberty County GA. Many of my stronger DNA hits had a family connection to the HOPE or GORDON families. I am populating a Liberty County Georgia Family tree for HOPE in Ancestry.com right now. Many Liberty County residents moved from there to Hernando County Florida in late 1830's and early 1840's, when Seminole Indian attacks were common.

Answer 7

Thank You!

Answer 8

I know the feeling looking at a brick wall for 50 years, especially one from not that long ago, where you should be able to expect some records and/or DNA!

I see that you have done your DNA at Ancestry - do you have any buckets of DNA cousins that you can't account for (as well as those Hope families that you mentioned)?

Are you using the colour coding to sort your matches?

Comments

Yes, I have color coded my matches, and have most of the stronger hits above 50cms accounted for(identified by shared matches). Many other strong hits have no tree and/or don't answer messages. Some, I swear, have trees that make me think they were switched at the hospital.

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hmm, always a possibility!