Need Help Finding German Wedding Information

+2 votes
320 views
Hi WikiTree Genealogists. I need help finding German wedding information on my great uncle Friedrich "Fritz" Koch-6106 and his wife Fredericka Bell-35083.  His date of birth was 3 Jul 1863, and her date of birth was 25 Nov 1865.  They were both born in Germany.  They were married somewhere in Germany on 31 Dec 1887.  The other information I have on them is that they left Germany on 31 Oct 1889 with Ernest, their oldest son, and arrived in America on 18 Nov 1889.  They settled in the tiny town of Lyons, Iowa, eventually moving to Elgin, IL.   I may have an incorrect spelling of their first names as there are so many variations of their names.  I have no access to German records and would be very grateful for any help.  I also could use help on his obituary.  He died in a suburb of Chicago on 26 Aug 1899, but I can't find any obituary on him.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Kathryn.
WikiTree profile: Fritz Koch
in Genealogy Help by Kathryn Ryan G2G3 (3.6k points)
edited by Kathryn Ryan

Kathryn, about the second paragraph of your question. I don't know what error message you saw, but it may not mean what you fear. DNA aside, WikiTree knows you are related to Frederick Koch-6106. See this relationship finder link.

Jim, sorry if this is a duplicate.  I tried to add a copy of the screenshot I took.  Not sure how to do it.  If you trust me with your regular email address, I will send you the screenshot.  I've tried to add it several times, but can't figure out how.  Clicking on the "Image" button above doesn't add it to this message.  Sorry.

Sorry for my confusion.  This site is apparently way over my head.  I'm feeling like I don't belong here.
Sure, Kathryn. I've sent you a private message.
If this helps at all, I have a German ancestor who is sometimes listed as Friederika and sometimes as Friederike. More things to search for :)

I wish you luck in your research!

2 Answers

+2 votes
 
Best answer
ThruLines® lists the connections as DNA connections associated with a person in his tree based on his test results. If this connection is incorrect on ancestry, it will also be incorrect on ThruLines. Therefore, this cannot be a reliable source. A reliable DNA connection can only exist if both persons have taken the test.
by Dieter Lewerenz G2G Astronaut (2.0m points)
selected by Susan Laursen
As I said: all, except Fritz and Ernst.

Dieter, are you saying that Johann Jakob Koch-5981 is not my great grandfather and must be deleted from my tree?

He was born:

5 Feb 1862 in Tübingen, Württemberg, Deutschland

yes and all his ancestors and chidren, except Frederik, if you belongs to the Pommerania family, he must be disconnected
Could it be that I belong to the Johann Jakob Koch family of Tubingen and not the Fritz Koch family of Pommerania?  I am pretty sure that Johann (John) Koch is my great grandfather because I tracked it backwards from my grandmother, Agnes Elsie Koch, whom I knew personally.  I believe that is my correct ancestry.  I was trying to connect Fritz to John because of the DNA connection to a descendant of Fritz.  But I have no other real family line to Fritz other than as a possible brother to my Great Grandfather, Johann Jakob Koch (John).  I can drop Fritz without causing too much harm to my family tree, because I have no other connection to Fritz and a long family history / connection to John.  

So, can I just delete my connection to Fritz as my Great Grand Uncle and leave my connection to John as my Great Grandfather alone?  Before you reply, I hate to ask, but could you please read my profile pages for both John and Fritz?  Thank you and I'm sorry for the trouble I have caused.  Kathryn.
If you have sources that you are a descendant of the Tübinger Kochs, then you must disconnect the Pommeranian Kochs. They are not the same family. It might be that they are connected to you via another line.
Yes, if you disconnect Fritz and Ernst the line is clear, if you are sure that you are a descendant of the Tübinger line. As I wrote, maybe there is another connection that you will find in the future. I would disconnect them but stay as profile manager, maybe you will find the connection one day.
I will read them tomorrow; we have 00:30 in the morning and I get tired.
Thank you, Dieter.  Now I feel better.  I will delete Fritz and his family from my family.  I appreciate your help.  Kathryn.
That’s exactly what I have been trying to say. Both I and a living descendant of Fritz Koch have taken a DNA test and we are a match!  Because I don’t want to violate any more rules here, I’m not giving her name, but if you look at a screenshot of my ThruLines DNA page, you will see a DNA match between me and a descendant of Fritz Koch who’s initials are L.O.  She is a real person and we have exchanged emails and even phone calls. Ancestry matched us on the basis of DNA results, not on the basis of a couple of random trees found on their website.  I wish this dialogue box would allow for me to attach a photo. I have the proof of our DNA match. It is included somewhere in one of my profile pages. I’m going to go find it and add it to my personal profile page. I think a match should be considered as good as a source.
Maybe I am missing something here, but have you considered an error in the papertrail of LO?

Ancestry does only give you possibilities based on something a human in front of a computer has once typed in. And german records can be a challenge.

But that's only one possibility.

Dieter has given you a great kick-off for the next steps.

You'll find your connection to LO, Letting go of an idea, stepping back and patiently wait for the solution can be hard.

Chris
+1 vote
Hi Kathryn,

I have sent you PMs about Elsie's siblings parentage. Now I noticed on Emil's marriage which is barely readeble for me, he might have given his mother's name as Friederika Braun?!

Before chasing Elsie's grandfather back, If I was you, I would try and fix these parentages first. If there is no decision away from presumtion, who was Emil's mother, I would just keep the father and state the possibilities. Just a suggestion...

Then secondly the original church record of the marriage  of Johann Jakob and Anna Maria Braun can often provide you with an information, If the groom was widowed or divorced. I do not now whether you have it and I do not know whether it is available online. It would probably be on Archion, but I don't have a subscription.

Bye

Chris
by Christiane Berger G2G6 Mach 1 (12.8k points)
The marriage record of Johann Jakob and Anna Maria Braun is here:

Württemberg: Landeskirchliches Archiv Stuttgart > Dekanat Tübingen > Kirchentellinsfurt > Eheregister 1870-1926 Band 8

Kirchentellinsfurt No. 8/1887

Groom: Johann Jacob Koch, Bauer hier (farmer here); Eltern (parents) + (deceased) Johann Jacob Koch, GRath (councillor), Acvisor u. Heiligenpfleger hier, Friederike g. Heusel; ledig (umarried), geboren (born) hier 1862, 5. Februar

Bride: Anna Maria, g. (nee) Braun, ohne Beruf (without profession); Eltern Johann Friedrich Braun, Bauer in Immenhausen, + Agnes g. Mozer, ledig; geboren Immenhausen 1863, 2. Januar

Proclamation: 15. Trittis (15. Sonntag nach Sonntag Trinitatis) 1887

Copulation: 20 Septembr. 1887
Because there is written ledig (unmarried) behind the names, groom and bride were not married before.
The father of that Johan Jacob was also Johann Jacob. His death record is here:

Württemberg: Landeskirchliches Archiv Stuttgart > Dekanat Tübingen > Kirchentellinsfurt > Totenregister 1864-1898 Band 10

Kirchentellinsfurt No. 17/1885

Name Johann Jakob Koch

Stand: Gemeinderath, Acvisor u. Heiligenpfleger, ev.

Parents: + Jakob Koch, Acvisor u. Heiligenpfleger u. + Catharina Barbara g. Weber

Spouse: Friederike g. Heusel

Born: 27 Februar 1831

Death; 15. Juni, Nachts 11 1/2

Burial: 18. Juni, Morgs. 10
Great find , Dieter! As that was supposed to be the second marriage, Kathryn, maybe there is yet another another answer to your riddle. Can you seperate all your infos on Johann Jacob, one pile for all the documentation for Koch/Braun and one for Koch/Round?
Before that marriage both were not married and Round is not a German name. Was the second marriage after that one in the US?
The Braun was supposed to be the second! That's why I asked.

Round supposedly first.

I think first step would be to assign  the right parent couple to the right child. There seems to be bit of a mixup for the mothers. I' ve PM'ed Kathryn about it.

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