Is there additional evidence of Edward Elmer's parents?

+7 votes
286 views

Edward Elmer 1610-1676: I believe it is time to improve on this individual’s biography. Hotten’s Persons of Quality Original Lists appears to be incomplete when compared with Bank’s Planters of the Commonwealth. In the latter we find evidence for a father, un-named mother and a brother. Obviously there were more than forty-seven persons on the ship Lyon. Obviously Edward had a life in England before making the trip to the New World. Where did dad, mom and brother Richard go in the New World. Is there other evidence of his heritage in England? Many books and family trees have alluded to his relationship to John Aylmer, Bishop of London. Are there any researchers or books from England that have tied them together?

I have added an additional PDF file to Edward Elmer-195 with Hotten's list next to Banks' list.

Truly a MUST read:

An Essay by the Elmer/Elmore Group

WikiTree profile: Edward Elmer
asked Apr 1, 2015 in Requests for Genealogy Help by Robert Elmore G2G4 (4,460 points)
edited Feb 12 by Robert Elmore
Robert,

thanks for posting this topic.

my understanding of the 47-people is not that that was the entirety of the number of passengers (although it could have been); but that 47 was the number of people in Hooker's party. We could certainly clarify that part of the text.

What if anything does Anderson say about his origins?

Ha! My misunderstanding. So of the 123 passengers, only 47 were "Men of Quality."

Banks The Planters of the Commonwealth does say there were 50 children, so the rest were wives, women and possibly slaves. I read through Banks list and still can't find 123 passengers.

123 passengers, 50 being children. I count 95 passengers, 36 being children
28 people missing, including 14 children
14 adults missing plus 14 children missing

Quoting The Great Migration Begins:

ORIGIN:

Unknown

MIGRATION:

1632 on Lyon [Hotten 150]

FIRST RESIDENCE:

Cambridge

REMOVES:

Hartford, Northampton 1655, Podunk 1660

There is also spurious evidence that brother Richard was a property owner with his brother in Hartford, or thereabouts. I need to look up the reference.

 

Maybe, but, what if I'm wrong?

All these answers, yet, what if we we're working with the wrong facts? You guessed it. This is a teaser.

New information will be coming forward in the following week which will turn Edward Elmer research on it's ear. Suggestion: Review the information in all of these posts and try to guess what will be changing.

You will be surprised!

 

7 Answers

+6 votes
 
Best answer

Why has it been so difficult to research English beginnings? Possibly this will shed some light on the matter: J. Gardner Bartlett, The English Ancestral Homes Of The Founders Of Cambridge, Volume: 14, Pages: 79-103, Years: 1919, Copyright: 1926, Publishers: Cambridge Historical Society, http://www.cambridgehistory.org/content/english-ancestral-homes-founders-cambridge. Text from page 89, “We will now take leave of Colchester, and returning over the old Roman road as far as Copford we then strike westward over the very ancient main highway running across Essex to the borough of Hertford. After traveling about fifteen miles we come to Braintree, another parent town of a namesake in Massachusetts. Braintree and Bocking, although separate adjoining parishes, form practically, although not officially, a single town. The twin parishes are located on rising ground above a small river, and lie on the site of a Roman station. The streets of the double village are narrow and winding and are lined with houses, many dating from Stuart and Tudor times. St. Michael's Church in Braintree is situated in a spacious churchyard in the center of the town, and dates from the fifteenth century, although much restored. Its square stone tower is surmounted by a very high pointed spire covered with slate and spreading out at the bottom to cover the full size of the tower, an unusual feature in English rural churches. Unluckily the registers of this parish before 1660 have long been missing; and as many early founders of New England came from here, the loss is a great misfortune to us. The church of St. Mary in Bocking, also located in a spacious churchyard shaded by large trees, is a much larger and more interesting structure of flint and stone in the later Pointed Style. The ancient registers of this church were also long missing, but a few years ago were found, although missing in parts, and what exists from 1558 to 1639 was printed by the late James J. Goodwin of Hartford, Conn.”

answered May 6, 2015 by Robert Elmore G2G4 (4,460 points)
edited Jul 6, 2016 by Robert Elmore
Sadly, the English origin of Edward Elmer and of many other immigrant is simply beyond the reach of diligent reasearch, unless lightning strikes and long-forgotten records suddenly see the light of day.
+2 votes
What was his mother and father name ??
answered Apr 1, 2015 by Wayne Morgan G2G6 Pilot (576,950 points)

Quoting Banks The Planters of the Commonwealth:

Edward Elmore   perhaps from London   Cambridge (landing point)

Mrs. .....Elmore

Richard Elmore

Edward Elmore (Elmer-195)

 

As Edward eventually marries Mary Unknown, this would most likely be young Edward (Elmer-195)

Currently, there is no bio for dad, mom and brother Richard. This would be an additional generation.

Old/outdated information led us to believe that Edward traveled with his family to The New World. Now we know that he traveled by himself. Please read Ancestors of Edward Elmer... Pending DNA.
+2 votes
There are many Edward Elmer or variations of last name Aylmer,Allner etc.

none showing father Also Edward.Of course some info was lost in that era

too fire,and  old church records deteriating and cannot be read.Other problem

is,Geneological and Historians will show different facts.When i have researched

New England ,i have never been able to find the person who was supposed to be

born in England.

Good Luck
answered Apr 1, 2015 by Wayne Morgan G2G6 Pilot (576,950 points)
The book writers can't figure his name: Elmer, Elmore, Ellmore, Aylmer, Ælmer and probably other variations. The accepted in this country has been Elmer, until his grandchildren started playing with the spelling. I didn't realize how obscure Elmore is as compared to Elmer until I really started working on the family history.
+5 votes

Hi Robert, because Robert Charle Anderson's Great Migration Begins doesn't show parents for Edward Elmer, we should not attach parents to his WikiTree profile unless further evidence surfaces.

However, you seem to be suggesting exactly that:  Banks' list appears to show that Edward immigrated with a brother Richard and a father who was also named Edward.  BUT, on the other hand, the father in this case could be Edward himself, with two sons and a wife who apparently died before 1644.  Two interesting hypotheses for further research...

EDIT: Here's a further hint for Edward's origin: http://judisfamilytree.blogspot.com/2010/10/elmerelmore-family.html

answered Apr 1, 2015 by John Schmeeckle G2G6 Mach 7 (75,420 points)
edited Apr 1, 2015 by John Schmeeckle

If Edward Elmer-195 (the father) arrived with a wife and two children in 1632, the wife would have had to have died before 1644 when he married Mary Unknown-257919 in Hartford.

TIMELINE:                                  EVENT                                            EDWARD’S AGE

1610 (before 1613)                  Birth                                                              0

1628-1632                          Two children born                                                       18-22

6/22/1632                           Departed London                                                             22

9/16/1632                          Arrived Boston                                                                22

1636                                 Moved from Cambridge to Hartford                                   26

Before 1644                      Un-named wife died                                                       <34

1644                                  Married Mary Unknown-257919                                        34

1676                                    Killed by Indians in King Phillip’s War                               66

The timeline may be a bit tight between birth of two babies and an ocean voyage, Would you take a newborn on an ocean voyage in the 1600’s? There is no reference to his two missing children, Edward and Richard. There is a reference in TGMB to Richard Elmer being a partner in land, more research required. If this is the scenario we go with, we need to add a wife and two children to Edward. Additionally, where did Edward at 22 years of age have enough money to transport his family to the New World and buy property and provisions. Is there evidence of his education to a profession which would give him the means to make the journey, or yet, time available? Most discussions indicate that the passengers were well to do.

 

Birth: 1610 seems to be the year most family histories use for his birth. TGMB says, “By about 1613 based on grants of land at Cambridge (and as early as 1608 if he was sixty years old when relieved of watching and warding and training).” 1608 would make this scenario more plausible.

 

If Edward Elmer (the father) arrived with a wife and two children in 1632, he would have had to have been born before 1592. His sons would have been about twenty years old when leaving London. These children (I wouldn’t have called them children, but, in some societies you’re not a man till 30) would be the perfect age for life in the New World. The elder Elmer would have had opportunity to raise funds for the trip to the New World. There is no evidence of Edward and un-named wife’s death and little more information on brother Richard.

 

Quote from TGMB:

In his list of "Early Land Owners," Manwaring includes in Hartford before 1653 "Ed: Elmer" and "Richard Elmer." The Hartford land records do not contain this latter name, but the source of Manwaring's error has not been determined [Manwaring 1:83]. 

I am in the hopes that someone will step up with more information to move this family tree back into England and not leave it on the shores of the New World.

It appears I may need to argue both sides of this matter. How did Edward Elmer-195 obtain funds for the trip, being as young as he was? He could have inherited it. Since this is conjecture, all things are possible.
 
Another question now comes up. If Edward (father of Edward Elmer-195 and Richard) had gone to all the trouble to get to the New World, why would he stay in Cambridge and allow his son to go into the wilderness to what would become Hartford? This trip is four years after the voyage on the Lion. Could his health or that of another family member prevented the journey? Edward Elmer-195 would now be four years older and in the prime of his life.
 
Further conjecture: Edward and his first son Richard are in business in Cambridge. Elmer and Sons. Unfortunately, there's only room for one son. So the other son, Edward Elmer-195 packs his bags and heads off for adventure in Hartford.
 
I suggest we make a decision, right or wrong. List it as contested. 
  1. Edward came with a wife and two more children not listed on his bio
  2. Edward has a father with the same name, a mother and an older brother named Richard.
  3. We consider  Charles Bank's information regarding other family members as spurious.
 
There is no hurry to make this decision. Hopefully, somebody will come up with some evidence that will push us one direction or the other. There needs to be ample time to allow everyone to weigh in. Even if we make a mistake, it is easily correctable.
 
Please help me keep this discussion alive.
Hi

Forgive me for joining the discussion late.  I have only just joined Wikitree.

May I ask.....have you looked at the English wills in the early 1600's?  Perhaps there is one that gives you your answers.  My experience is that the early wills, in particular, are a wonderful and comprehensive resource.  Just a thought and please forgive me if you have been down this road already.

I had a quick look and noticed that there were a number of early wills (1600 to 1660) for Elmer's and Aylmer's.  In particular, I noted quite a few in the Sussex area near London.

Good luck!

Dale
I've been giving this some thought: Edward & Elizabeth went to The New World in 1632 and unless they returned to England, there would be no will or probate, maybe.

What if upon arriving in Massachusetts Colony, Edward realized what he left behind and hopped a ship back to England? Possibly his father died and he would need to take care of the estate. I haven't seen any records of people returning to England, but, since the same ships made multiple trips, it had to happen.
Hi Robert

Forgive me, but, I was suggesting you look at English wills in the period of say 20 to 30 years after Edward arrives in the new world.  I have seen wills previously that say something to the effect that the person leaves x amount to their nephew in the colonies, for example.  It may be a hard slog, but, it may enable you to break through this brick wall.

Good luck!
+4 votes
William Richard Cutter, et al. "Genealogical and Family History of the State of Connecticut" appears to be another source that concludes that Edward is a son of Edward and Elizabeth Elmer and is the one who went to Hartford: "Edward Elmer, immigrant ancestor, was born in England about 1604, probably at Quinton near Northampton, one of the sons of Edward and Elizabeth Elmer. He came to America in the ship "Lion," reaching Boston, September 16, 1632, settled first at Cambridge and went to Hartford with Rev. Mr. Hooker's company in 1636, where he was an original proprietor, his home lot being on the east side of Main street, next north of that of J. Talcott."
answered Aug 1, 2015 by Robert Elmore G2G4 (4,460 points)
edited Aug 2, 2015 by Robert Elmore
+4 votes

I couldn't make any connection from Edward Elmer going backwards. So I entered Bishop John Aylmer and many of his descendants, as far as I could figure. I did find a connection to The New World through one of his daughters. The biographies might be a good read.

 

CONCLUSION: Edward is NOT connected directly to Bishop John Aylmer. So either it's a myth or wishful thinking. There is the possibility of a connection from one of John's siblings or maybe even further back. Most likely this question will be answered by DNA eventually.

answered Oct 5, 2015 by Robert Elmore G2G4 (4,460 points)
0 votes
Robert have you seen the new source I posted in Elmer-195 records seem to show another Edward Son of Edward, record also shows Elmore. This Edward born around 1550. This is our dead link to John Aylmer possible.
answered Jan 4 by Stephen Elmer G2G2 (2,820 points)

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