Mother of Alice de Toeni

Question

The much-gedcommed thrice-married heiress Alice de Toeni is the subject of a long profile and a well-researched blog (link on profile), according to which the identity of her mother Mary is unknown.  MedLands concurs.

Richardson has gone into print with his pet theory that she was an otherwise-unknown Bruce lassie, but I don't know if he's found enough evidence to convince everybody.  John Ravilious had an interesting alternative theory that she was an otherwise-unknown Roos lass.

Meanwhile WikiTree has her as an otherwise-unknown Bohun wench.  That would make Alice's parents 1st cousins.  That could be the explanation - somebody put the right people in the wrong place.

So what's to be done with her in these Uncertain times?

Answer 1

The Complete Peerage in various volumes, also has her mother Mary as having no known parents, and the unsourced statement that she may have been from Scotland.

I think she needs to be unlinked as a Bohun (as there appears to be no evidence for them as her parents). changed to Unknown and her biography discuss/mention the two possible theories.

Meanwhile back at Alice's biography, as well as a clean-up, the section copied directly from Charles Cawley's Medieval Lands database needs to be either deleted or used as a source for the information it contains and appropriately cited.  I haven't actually checked that it comes from his database, but it certainly looks like his style, and copying the citation numbers as well as the text is a bit of a giveaway.

Comments

If it's preferable not to have her LNAB as Unknown, then perhaps Brus or Bruce and marked as uncertain with an explanation.

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Since we don't know her parents, I think it's best to have her LNAB as Unknown.

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Hi, all.  Alice de Toeni's on one of the two Magna Carta trails Adrienne Tomkins and I are working on.  I'll bump her up on my priority list and see what I can do to enhance and source Alice's and her mother's profile tomorrow.

Addition to Note a day later -- I see there are several Alice de Toeni's.  My trail has the other one, but I edit biographies for fun, and will put in a cautionary list of the various Alices de Toeni on WikiTree so it's easier for others to sort them out.  Am also adding info from Richardson's Royal Ancestry to the Humphrey de Bohun who soon won't be Mary's father, making it clearer who are and who are not his children.  This is something that really has to be documented in the narrative, as you can't tell good information from bad just by looking at the data field.

Answer 2

RJ, that's great information.  Her parents certainly weren't first cousins; as we know, that wouldn't have been permitted.  As such, her mother Mary should be detached from  Humphrey de Bohun and his wife and her last name should be changed to Unknown.  Both Richardson and Ravilious conduct good research.  Since they have two different theories, the only thing to do is give her a LNAB of Unknown.  It would be advantageous to link to both Richardson and Ravilious as to their theories within her biography.

Darlene - Co-Leader, European Aristocrats Project

P.S.  I appreciate the sleuthing you do with these profiles!