Hi I'm new and could use some help

Question

Hello, my name is Joe Murray and I need some help. I only joined on 11 May 2015 but have been researching my grandfather on other sites such as Ancestry and FamilySearch for the past 3 weeks. I have tried to get a hard copy of his birth certificate but cannot get it without the names of his parents. I cannot get a hard copy of is Death Certificate because he hasn't been dead 40 years or more.

I am trying to identify the parents of John Murray, with a possible middle initial F(Francis). John was born on 25 Sep 1898 in New Jersey and died in Waretown, New Jersey on 2 Feb 1987.

He was married to Margaret Lord with a possible middle initial of E(Elizabeth) born 14 Sep 1897 in New Jersey and died on 4 Apr 1989 again in Waretown, New Jersey.

They had 3 male children, John born in 1924, Joseph (my father) born 18 Mar 1930 and died 27 Dec 1991 and James born in 1939. All 3 children were born in Newark, New Jersey.

Comments

Welcome to Wikitree!!!! Doug has your answer and a good one it is too. Thanks for joining us and good luck with your tree.

 

Betty

---

ame:	John Murray
Age:	1
Birth Date:	Sep 1898
Birthplace:	New Jersey
Home in 1900:	Newark Ward 3, Essex, New Jersey
Race:	White
Gender:	Male
Relation to Head of House:	Son (Child)
Marital Status:	Single
Father's name:	Gerald Murray
Father's Birthplace:	England
Mother's name:	Margaret Murray
Mother's Birthplace:	New Jersey
Occupation:	View on Image
Neighbors:	View others on page
Household Members:	Name Age Gerald Murray 34 Margaret Murray 32 Emma Murray 7 Anna Murray 5 Gerald Murray 3 John Murray 1

 

---

Name:	John Joseph Murray
Respondent:	Yes
Age:	43
Estimated birth year:	abt 1897
Gender:	Male
Race:	White
Birthplace:	New Jersey
Marital Status:	Married
Relation to Head of House:	Head
Home in 1940:	Bayonne, Hudson, New Jersey
Map of Home in 1940:	View Map
Street:	West 35 Street
House Number:	18
Farm:	No
Inferred Residence in 1935:	Bayonne, Hudson, New Jersey
Residence in 1935:	Same House
Sheet Number:	5A
Number of Household in Order of Visitation:	88
Occupation:	Machinist
House Owned or Rented:	Rented
Value of Home or Monthly Rental if Rented:	41
Attended School or College:	No
Highest Grade Completed:	High School, 3rd year
Hours Worked Week Prior to Census:	40
Class of Worker:	Wage or salary worker in private work
Weeks Worked in 1939:	52
Income:	220
Income Other Sources:	No
Neighbors:	View others on page
Household Members:	Name Age John Joseph Murray 43 Elizabeth Vivian Murray 40 Rita Murray 17 John Murray 16 Edna Murray 12 James Murray 5

 

Answer 1

This is from the birth index:

Name:	John J Murray
Gender:	Male
Birth Date:	25 Sep 1898
Birth Place:	Newark, Essex, New Jersey
Father's name:	Gerald H Murray
Father's Age:	32
Father's Birth Place:	England
Mother's name:	Margret Gongherty
Mother's Age:	30
Mother's Birth Place:	United States
FHL Film Number:	494240

 

Answer 2

Here are John J. Murray's parents. His birth date is shown here as 25 Sep 1898.

John J Murray

New Jersey, Births and Christenings

Name: John J Murray

Gender: Male

Birth Date: 25 Sep 1898

Birthplace: Newark, Essex, New Jersey

Father's Name: Gerald H Murray

Father's Birthplace: Eng

Father's Age: 32y

Mother's Name: Margret Gongherty

Mother's Birthplace: Us

Mother's Age: 30y

Reference ID: v 58 p 401 , System Origin: New Jersey-EASy , GS Film Number: 494240 , Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C05368-7

Attach to Family Tree 

No image available

New Jersey, Births and Christenings, 1660-1980

Search collection

About this collection

Citing this Record

"New Jersey, Births and Christenings, 1660-1980," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FZSZ-XGQ : accessed 12 May 2015), John J Murray, 25 Sep 1898; citing Newark, Essex, New Jersey, reference v 58 p 401; FHL microfilm 494,240.

Answer 3

John J Murray

New Jersey, Births and Christenings

Name:

John J Murray

Gender:

Male

Birth Date:

25 Sep 1898

Birthplace:

Newark, Essex, New Jersey

Father's Name:

Gerald H Murray

Father's Birthplace:

Eng

Father's Age:

32y

Mother's Name:

Margret Gongherty

Mother's Birthplace:

Us

Mother's Age:

30y

Reference ID: v 58 p 401 , System Origin: New Jersey-EASy , GS Film Number: 494240 , Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C05368-7

 

"New Jersey, Births and Christenings, 1660-1980," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FZSZ-XGQ : accessed 12 May 2015), John J Murray, 25 Sep 1898; citing Newark, Essex, New Jersey, reference v 58 p 401; FHL microfilm 494,240.

Comments

Thank you all for this help, I have seen these references but hesitate to choose them as I have been unable to match the date of death for them. I am 95% certain that John F is the correct name given that it appears on Find A Grave and 5% leaning toward no middle name at all.

---

A lot of the old records were written by hand, not all in good handwriting.  Then they were in many cases transfered from one page to another by a different person, etc.  Fs and Js can look very similar when handwritten.  I wouldn't lament over it too much, although it would be nice to see the original document image and make your own assesment.

---

If you are certain of the birthdate you suggested, I would be quite sure this is correct also.  If not, then it needs further checking into.

---

It was a relief to see that John Murray's cemetery middle initial was F. Trying to determine an initial based on the handwriting of the person who filled out the form can be difficult. I have an ancestor whose first name is Frederick, but probably based on the handwriting of an early census taker, whoever tired to understand the handwriting put down Fordewick as the first name. This has since been corrected.

The date of death for John F. Murray shown below is the same month and year as in your question, February 1987. The stated birth year is exact.

---

This particular John was never married to a Margaret Lord

Answer 4

 

John F Murray

Memorial

Photos

Flowers

Edit

Share

Learn about upgrading this memorial...

Birth: Sep. 25, 1898

Death: Feb., 1987

 

 

Burial: Ocean County Memorial Park 

Toms River, Ocean County, New Jersey, USA

 

Created by: RobMinteer57

Record added: Oct 15, 2011 

Find A Grave Memorial# 78495821

Comments

In checking for death records for John J none fit with having a spouse named Margaret Lord

---

This person is my Grandfather. I was there when they buried him however I was never able to get the death certificate from my Grandmother (which I believe would have had his parent's names on it) before she died. When she died I couldn't get the information from my father, who moved into their house, because he hated me for standing up to him when dangerous issues arose within our childhood home. When he died I was appointed the Administrator of his estate but the house was ransacked by one of my siblings who probably has the information but is unwilling to admit to the act. Family kills sometimes. So, now I am stuck finding a John Murray married to a Margaret Lord that has some information regarding his parentage.

---

Joe

 

You can get a copy of the death certificate through the vital stats office in Trenton. The web address is on the internet.

---

I called the Dept of Vital Statistics in Trenton. I was informed of the following: First, I need to know both of John's parents names to request either a birth or death certicate (I don't have them - thus this request for help), Second, his birth is over a hundred years old and would be on microfiche if I had his parent's names. Third, he has been dead less that the required 40 years required for his death certificate to be made public even to a family and I would need his parent's names. Talk about circular thinking. The two pieces of information I am looking for are required to be known before I can get a document that would supply said information. Trust me I was frustrated.