Anyone with German settlers in Pennsylvania has done a DNA test?

+54 votes
Hi there,

I do hope to find some WikiTree'ers that have taken a DNA test and have early German settlers in their family tree.

Reason is that I do have several indications that I share with many cousins through those German settlers, me from the German side and they obviously as descendants from these settlers. As they kept marrying within their proximity their DNA was mostly preserved and not mixed as much as normally occurs. Hence a lot survived until nowadays.

If you have a kit at GedMatch, which is mandatory for this undertaking as it allows to analyze triangulations going down to very small and tiny segments (eg on chromosome 2 from 106-126 bp), please do contact me directly either through a post on my profile or via PM.

If you haven't done so, please consider to upload your raw DNA data to as it has some unique tools for analyzing your DNA and it's the only one that allows to effectively analyze from 1 cM genetic distance and 50 SNP onwards (maybe even less SNP but that's the minimum I use).

Before people declare me as being crazy for going after such small segments I do it only for identified and triangulated matches. Background is that over time our inherited ancestral segments get split up a lot. I have proven with my work so far that sometimes an intact 7 cM long segment gets split up into 4-5 smaller segments and as such is still possible to triangulate such people in a TG.

Thanks in advance!
WikiTree profile: Andreas West
in The Tree House by Andreas West G2G6 Mach 6 (62.9k points)
retagged by Keith Hathaway
Thanks for the info Andrea's. Any update on when your app will be ready?

Thank you


Hi Chris (Wallace),

it's not advisable to go down to 1cM and 50 SNP's only as you're basically looking for segments that are thousands of years old. You can find out if you compare yourself to one of the ancient DNA samples on GEDmatch like:

M107790 I0118 Alberstedt LNBA
M324645 I0112 BellBeaker
M224345 I0103 Corded Ware Germany
M348611 I0104 Corded Ware Germany
M313201 I0099 HalberstadtLNBA

You will see that you match them as well ;-)


Hello Bruce and others,

it's my best advice to follow (like) our Facebook page Your DNA family Facebook page as we're posting updates on our progress there, including screenshots and sometimes videos (there will be more videos coming once we're launching).

The launch is a moving target and in software development things will go wrong if they can (was that Murphy's law?). We're still bug hunting but there are days (like today) where (knock on wood) so far no new error is reported by the beta users. But we had quite some yesterday ;-)

Unfortunately that also means that I can't check out all the GEDmatches numbers that people continue to post. I don't even have much time for my own genealogy research as it's basically just coding day & night.

But once we launch those with Palatine ancestors will have the ability to search for them together with their other DNA cousins in the triangulated groups that are identified to be from Germany/the Palatine. It will be great to see how that works out as through the beta testing it has become very clear that the common ancestor is usually way further back then what the DNA testing companies are telling us (or rather predicting).

But we do have already some great success stories so please keep on trying to triangulate and then work with your DNA cousins on getting the family trees further developed until you merge!

Hi Andreas and all-

I do have german settlers that were in PA, mostly in the 1700s. It will take me a bit to filter through to compile them as  I am doing this on my iphone.

My GEDmatch profile is 458350, Caitlin Grossman. 

You forgot one letter in your gedmatch Kit number.

You’re right! I grabbed my profile number instead of kit number!! Oooops.

CORRECT Gedmatch Kit number


I found 19 matches on Gedmatch that we both match to!

My email is    Bruce

we have two matches who match both our profiles.

Mine is MD9829559 and I am German. A few of my ancestors emigrated to different parts of the US.

Comparing Kit MD9829559 (Marcus Horstmann) [MyHeritage] and Kit A876449 (Alexandra Florimonte) [Migration - F2 - A]

Chr B37 Start Pos'n B37 End Pos'n Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
6 44,046,143 45,787,468 3.5 257
6 107,193,215 110,950,048 4 530
6 136,228,219 137,889,729 3 221
11 111,302,619 113,866,551 3.4 330
12 17,497,890 20,336,152 3.1 416
13 21,068,591 22,480,932 3.3 219
18 9,464,119 10,197,500 3.1 216
Hello Andreas. Since I messaged you in 2018 I used a 23 and Me kit instead of an Ancestry kit for Gedmatch and expanded my tree using DNA from 1000 to nearly 19000.

The new Gedmatch kit number is KB1416083P1.

This new kit helped me find and confirm 65 cousins to my Henry Hoch 1731-1827 on Ancestry.

I am still trying to confirm if one of two grandsons of Balthasar Hoch is my 6th GGF.  My cousins have DNA matches to both sides and I am trying to figure out the best way to resolve the issue.

I will try your techniques as mentioned above in our earlier conversation. If you'd like to try my new kit number I'd be interested in your findings.

Thanks for any help.

Bruce Hoch

92 Answers

+6 votes
Best answer
Hi Andreas,  gedmatch kit T761081 Jesse Elliott. When I lowered thresholds to your levels a LOT low matches came up on many Chromosomes. I invite you to have a look because i dont know which specifics your looking for.

 My moms paternal side is Brower,(Brauer) from Germany/ Netherlands. They came to William Penns colony in Chester,PA around 1720s. Hubert Brower &Ann Eis with sons John, Christian, & Henry. They founded a massive family & i have Automosal matches with several.

 Also you will find some male descendants that are also E-V13 that are in the Brewer/Brower project on FTDNA. Good luck & of course keep me posted if there is success! JE
selected by Andreas West

Hi Jesse (and others following this thread),

looks like we're really onto something. I've compared your kit against my father and his two sisters. We do have indeed 5 segments where you match with all three siblings and 7 where you match two of them:

Matching all 3:

Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs

1 186,155,499 190,024,731 2.0 621

2 196,434,716 199,488,869 2.3 530

3 3,255,819 4,752,434 5.0 582

10 18,744,782 20,322,983 1.3 511

12 20,835,693 21,749,447 1.5 531

Matching two of them:

2 159,369,731 163,124,693 2.2 684

7 12,536,902 14,346,084 3.1 623

7 32,424,097 34,959,160 2.3 560

8 50,415,911 53,537,958 2.6 526

8 91,246,126 94,427,906 2.0 522

16 78,075,910 79,619,328 3.2 602

18 22,707,729 23,892,757 1.4 586

All of them were FTDNA kits compared against each other, so we have 674k SNP's coverage for best results.

FYI - I used GEDmatch (not Genesis) with 500 SNP's and 1 cM minimum threshold in the 1:1 comparison.

Kits to match against are (paternal side):

T443643 (Juergen Basso)

T231565 (Ingrid Margarethe Dinger)

T080473 (Ruth Geise)

All three of them are my paternal line in case someone else wants to go ahead with a similar analysis.

As we're trying to identify deep Palatine ancestors DNA I also compared your kit against my mum, her sister and her brother. Again, 3 matches with all three of them and 7 matches with two of them:

Matching all three of them:

3 84,761,773 89,485,137 1.7 744

8 26,335,782 27,532,734 1.7 561

12 20,685,192 21,749,447 1.8 607

Matching two of them:

6 31,028,936 33,010,561 1.6 2,694

7 121,738,201 125,195,173 2.5 662

8 17,627,431 18,551,815 2.0 551

12 25,556,120 27,470,013 2.6 576

14 58,913,951 61,565,977 1.7 510

14 62,470,539 66,990,924 2.9 833

16 78,735,157 80,294,248 4.2 633

Kits to match against are (maternal side):

T337227 (Christel Schink)

T604749 (Marieta West)

T028826 (Manfred Cremer)

One of the segments (chr 12 20,685,192 - 21,749,447) is shared by all parties (both all my 3 from my paternal and all 3 from my maternal side). It has 530 to 610 SNP's in common. Seems to indicate that we've found indeed some deep Palatine connections here.

Spurred by this I went on to analyze where in the wider Palatine region (for me that's more the Eifel and Hunsrück) my ancestors are coming from.

Here's a map of my ancestors in the region:

Maps of Palatine (Eifel-Hunsrück) ancestors

My maternal side ancestors are coming from what is in the lower right of the previous map, I zoomed more in with this one (cities are Ravengiersburg-Rayerschied-Dörrebach-Stromberg-Schöneberg-Spabrücken-Waldalgesheim-Waldhilbersheim-Wallhausen):

Hunsrück region (maternal ancestors)

For my paternal ancestors it's the Eifel region, again a zoom in of the first picture (Hirten-Weiler-Thür-Ochtendung-Plaidt-Lonnig) :

Eifel ancestors (mostly paternal side)

As for that DNA segment which seems to be on both my maternal and paternal side it all points to Weiler (near Hirten) in the Eifel region where I do have a Maria Waldecker (married Schneider) WikiTree profile of Maria Waldecker from my maternal side who seems to be related to the Waldecker from Ochtendung (my paternal side). Both villages are anyway only 23 km apart as you can see in this image:

Route from Weiler to Ochtendung

Lastly the ancestors of Johann Castor Adams WikiTree profile of Johann Castor Adams from Hirten (who is a descendant of the above Maria Waldecker). His son Nicholas Michael Adams WikiTree profile of Nicholas Michael Adams emigrated to the US in 1851 and help found Johnsburg, McHenry County, IL - many ancestors are DNA matches!

Ancestors of Johann Castor Adams 

If you're somehow related to this famous Adams family (pun intended) then that would probably explain the DNA matching segments.

Lastly my main locations and surnames in the Eifel & Hunsrück region:

Paternal side:







Maternal side:

Dörrebach (SONNET, DUPOND)


Ravengiersburg (KNICHEL, WINCK, BERES)

Rayerschied (BERRES, KESSELER)

Schöneberg (FREISEM)

Spabrücken (FREISEM)


Waldalgesheim (FREISEM)

Waldhilbersheim (DULIUS or TULLIUS, RÖHSER)


Weiler (ADAMS)

Looking forward to see if others can identify more deep Palatine ancestral segments!

Andreas, nothing shared with you but Jesse, 6 segments shared. I fiqured something would be there as I recognized the Brouwer name (runs down to my grandmother on my fathers side)

Comparing Kit H226324 (Nicholas Notestine) and T761081 (Jesse Elliott)

Largest segment = 4.7 cM
Total of segments > 2 cM = 16.6 cM
6 matching segments

Andreas I lowered the numbers down on a 1 to 1 GEDmatch Genesis kit comparison to Ingrid Dinger and I'm looking at

total half matches = 61.4 - largest segment 6.7 cm -

11 shared segments. MRCA = 5.9 SNPs range from 109 to 316.

I'm new to genetic genealogy and an amateur at best in genealogy in general lol I was playing with all the kit # in this thread and decided to experiment with what you were talking about. My ancestors (and me) are from Pennsylvania. Prior to that  - Germany and Ireland but I don't have a clue where. I have most of them back to the 1700s or early 1800s at least in this country.

My GEDmatch kit # XJ2139047 - I'm going to keep running numbers now :)

Hello Tina,

I cannot advise to use SNP's lower than 500 in comparisons. As we're trying to analyze for old segments it's ok to go down from the traditional 5 centiMorgan minimum threshold but SNP's in the range of 109 to 316 as you posted are wrong results.

I've just posted the following PoV of mine to a genealogy mailing list:

"I’m still undecided about the results produced by Genesis in general. With the flexible SNP setting it has opened the door even wider to produce FALSE POSITIVE (meaning matches that appear to be correct but aren’t). Having worked in Artificial Intelligence & Machine Learning (formerly named Data Mining) for over 20 years I know that a prediction is always about the adjustment of the confusion matrix (see and the decision for which error (type I error meaning false positive or type II error meaning false negative) you should optimize.

What it means is that the guys at GEDmatch have to make a call to either trade for a higher quality (meaning less errors) in FALSE POSITIVES but that would mean a larger number of FALSE NEGATIVE, meaning matches that are true matches won’t be shown to you.So they prefer to keep the quality of the FALSE NEGATIVES high, meaning to rather show you eg. 1 one more true match and don’t care if they show you 5 false matches.

It’s a difficult decision and usually the optimal balance is only achieved if eg a cost function is added (meaning, what is the cost of a FALSE POSITIVE vs the cost of a FALSE NEGATIVE). Think of your loan application, a FALSE POSITIVE will cost the bank the whole loan money (you will never pay a single cent back) vs the cost of not making the business with those FALSE NEGATIVE (and thus losing that nice profit.

So in general I’d like to issue the warning to everyone who uses Genesis to be aware of this and focus on those matches with a higher SNP count (companies like 23andMe use 500 as a minimum). Every SNP more that the algorithm finds as a potential match (we can never be sure as small snippets of DNA are stitched together, see fuzzy endings of matching segments) is a good one in general.

Thanks for the reply Andreas! I was looking at too many numbers I suppose. I thought you said 1 CMA and 50 SNPS. Re-reading the thread I see that wasn't you. Ah well, I'm simply playing with numbers at this point. At least some of those numbers are beginning to make some sense thanks to patient explanations from people like yourself. Thank you!
I’m brand new to this forum and have no understanding about chromosome comparison but I see you have a variation of my name “Keesler” posted. I just sent you a personal reply not knowing this thread exited with multiple replies.

I have early German settlers in Pennsylvania who migrated from Haverstraw area New York, specifically, the Keesler family that I’m certain of. My cousin has conducted a lot more research on this than I. One of their offspring, George Harman Keesler, married into the Conklin family, via Elinor, from whom it appears a great many PA Keeslers descended. George’s brother, William, stayed on the NY side but near Cochecton, so that family line may be of help there as well.

My DNA was just recently uploaded to GEDmatch and kit # is BH6661801. If someone can point me to something I can read that’s in layman’s terms so I can grasp what to look for and what it means, I’d be very appreciative.
+13 votes
I have a few old German immigrant branches, chiefly the Volbrecht/Fulbrights and the Olingers, both direct lines to two different great-great grandparents. The myOrigins map on FTDNA "thinks" that I'm 50% Western/Central European.

We share 6 ~4 cM segements, the highest being 4.7.
by Carrie Quackenbush G2G6 Mach 7 (73.7k points)
Bingo, we have a triangulated segment with Bill Derr (M591407), Edythe Walmer (F386581), B R Bolton (F287201), Vivian Lenett Shirley (F364099) and my mum (M014747) at chromosome 2 from 130-133 bp.

So welcome to our extended family, you have a couple of new cousins! Thanks for your answer, that is further proof of that suspected German settlers relationship. The ancestral segment is small (3.9 cM) but it's part of a larger segment that is mostly cut into many smaller pieces for most of us.

Will contact you directly for next steps but that's more than I hope for when I wrote this question.

Anytime I see BINGO as the first word in a comment to an answer I will make it the best answer - though this answer was so cool and the comment even cooler.  MAgs

Thanks Mags and sorry for not having found time to come back to you on the translation job. Being busy in the categorization project and the rest of genealogy (in what spare time is left).

Your comment made me smile and that's worth a lot, thanks!

Andreas,130-133bp on 2 you say. I have a 27 cM match at 121-152 on 2 but it seems she and I share more than one relative in Missouri and so I've been trying to sort that out. We definitely share a 3rd old German immigrant line though, the Wolfskehl/Wolfskills.

Carrie,  You noted "We share 6 ~4 cM segements, the highest being 4.7. "

It does not appear your autosomal DNA is phased.  If that is the case, then experts advise you only work with segments above 7 cM.


Peter, yes indeed. Once I got a DNA match with Gail Richard Quackenbush, descendant of my 8th great uncle, for only 9 cMs (from the endogamous New Netherlands population even), I quit looking at anything less than 15 because few people know their tree that far back anyway.

As a general rule I agree with you however I've tried to explain this isn't necessary in this case.

Peter you seem to mean that all these matches are IBS or IBC, yet you can't have looked at every match in detail and put those now around 90 matches from 11 people on one ancestral segment in a spreadsheet like I did. If you like I can send it to for your review. 22 of these matches are above 7 cM, not counting one more at 6.9 cM.

Having phased data is a luxury that only few of us have. I'm lucky enough to have DNA tests for both of my parents.

If your theory would be correct, what happens to a 8 cM segment that gets split up exactly in two 4 cM segments when given to the next generation? It changes from IBD to IBS/IBC just because it's now smaller than 7 cM? Sorry but I can't follow that logic.


Making such a statement like above will mislead the less well informed to believe that everything under 7 cM (or 10 cM as others are saying) is IBS/IBC by default which isn't true.

If you want to paint your whole chromosomes you have to go down with your minimum criteria eventually. As the end point has moved further I now have another group of two cousins that were unclear so far (meaning didn't triangulate under 23andme match criteria) that actually fall onto the same ancestral segment. I hope I can convince them to upload their raw data to GedMatch to proof that they belong to the same common ancestors (both match my mum and myself, so it's not my fathers chromosome they match on).
+10 votes
I am skeptical of short-segment DNA matches, but it doesn't hurt to add my name to your list. I have German ancestry in eastern Pennsylvania in the colonial era, but I don't have a great deal of information about them (and some of what I do have isn't on Wikitree yet). Germany family names in Pennsylvania include Sultzbach in York County, and Tice (probably Theiss?), Fritz, Miller, Wingard (possibly Wenger?), possibly Himmelberger, Bechtel, Garver (Garber?), and Stoppelbein.

My gedmatch ID is listed on my Wikitree profile.
by Ellen Smith G2G Astronaut (1.3m points)
Thanks Ellen for your comment and raising the hand and thanks to all the others that have sent me a PM. I'm a bit overwhelmed with work right now but promise to take a look at your kit no over the weekend and will come back to each and anyone of you.

Hope that we will have more matches!

Thanks a lot to everyone responding
Hi Ellen,

I've checked and the largest segment I see is 785 SNP's for 5.8cM at chr 16 for matching my mum (from 30-50 mbP). This is unfortunately crossing a centromere, an area that should always be treated a bit more carefully when it come to matching results (though another opinion is that those centromeres also have to be inherited like any other part of a chromosome).

I do have a small pileup with a lot of people with a similar length that what my mum matches with you. So that might lead back to a common ancestor far back or is what some people call IBP (by population). I've looked through your well researched family tree and didn't see anything familiar, it seems anyway that those that you identified so far came to the U.S. pretty far back in time.

If we do share a common ancestor then that would support the idea that it was back in the 1600-1750 region maybe. GedMatch is unfortunately very slow today but I will see if I can find matches with other people in that pile-up region of chr 16.

BTW, did you ever receive an invite to share on 23andme? I couldn't find you in any accepted match.


Forgot to write that those on chr 2 in the area that I've described in my question are all very small. The largest part is 255 SNP's and the biggest genetic distance is 3.1cM.

Hi, Andreas. As you know, 23andMe shows only the ~1000 closest DNA matches, and it no longer shows me people I'm not already sharing with as DNA Relatives unless the match percentage is at least about 0.18% (typically about 13 cM). I have many DNA relatives, presumably because much of my ancestry is in the early colonial New England population. Accordingly, it's unlikely that you and I would have tried to share at 23andMe.

Gedmatch shows me matching you on 7.9 cM, but (as you noted) I match your mom on only 5.8 cM, indicating that the 7.9 cM match is not really an IBD segment. Interestingly, I don't find any other 23andMe or Gedmatch contacts on that same part of chromosome 16.

Wow, I'm still at 0.10% but I have about 400 people that accepted the sharing request and I invite everyone to share.

You are right, my segment is artificially enlarged to 7.9 cM it can't be larger than my mums (unless there was a reading error on her part). I've checked also vs our phased profile for my mum and it gets even smaller:


Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
16 82129738 82873782 3.0 337


So I guess our common ancestor is too far back (meaning not within the genealogical time frame). But thanks for raising the hand.


Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
1 15,402,923 18,376,983 6.3 770


Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
8 87,947,962 93,265,947 2.7 840


Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
10 56,836,579 61,135,719 3.2 872
Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
13 91,090,294 94,339,520 5.1 845
Again a couple nice matches > 500 SNP's. Thanks for checking Summer and maybe they will turn up eventually. Have send you a PM.

Ellen, you are positive for a short PG16 (see this), but that's probably not a surprise to you, as you have a number of Pennsylvania Germans.  PG6 and PG16 seem like spectral lines, or a haplogroup, that is characteristic of a certain population, but not big enough by themselves to prove anything.

I noticed that upon decreasing the minimum SNP count to 450, there were 4 small segments, which indicates a probability of a very distant relation.  I believe I do have one or two very distant Smith's, but no time to follow up on that just now.  (And I don't think I've added them to WikiTree yet.)

Summer, you were one of the cases where you weren't positive but several of your relatives were.  In fact, 3 of your relatives were positive for PG16, 2 of them with larger than average segments.  I have to assume therefore that you barely missed being positive, that something from your non-Binkley side broke up the PG16 segment.

+11 votes
I've got German ancestors that immigrated to Pennsylvania.  Names include Pabst (changed to Bapst and Pope), Kieffer, Frey/Fry, Muller (became Miller), Burns.  They were mostly in Berks county, Pennsylvania.  I've tested both of my parents and myself for autosomal.  Gedmatch IDs are F8468, A179614, A789447.
by Darlene Athey-Hill G2G6 Pilot (460k points)

Darlene, this is you and I

Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
2 134,334,310 137,524,538 2.5 747
Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
6 44,309,712 47,059,624 4.3 710
Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
12 56,398,456 64,649,337 6.4 1,650
12 108,592,640 112,697,844 3.3 728
Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
13 80,683,271 84,746,118 2.2 789
Darlene -- my wife has Eastern PA Fry's in her tree.
The latest is her 3G-Grandmother Eve Elizabeth Fry (Smith) (1787-1862).
I am new here and haven't had my Gedcom import from Ancestry approved yet.


Darlene, you and 3 relatives were positive for PG6 (see this), probably not a surprise with multiple Pennsylvania Germans in your ancestry.

No, not a surprise, but pretty darn neat (IMHO)!  Thanks, Rob.
Mark, do you know the ancestor of Eve Elizabeth Fry Smith?  My Frey/Fry family immigrated in 1731 through Philadelphia.  They went to Berks and then Bucks, Pennsylvania, then went to Burke and Lincoln, North Carolina.
Darlene, I just checked out of curiosity (i usually don't because the match is so low it just makes me crazy knowing I'll never figure it out) Anyway, I match A179614 at 15cM and my uncle matches at 9.6cM. That's the highest I think I've had just randomly taking the time to check. Haha. My surnames are Moser, Culler, Binckele of the German's from PA. They settled in Stokes/Surry Co along the Great Wagon Rd. I've spent enough time in the old cemeteries here to know most of the surnames and Fry is definitely one, but I haven't seen them cross into my tree so far. (A065385 is mine and A069612 is my uncle.)
+10 votes
I'm a Kimmel descendant and I beileve my Groomer ancestors were probably originally Grömer. There's also Heishman & Zimmerman.
by Karen Lowe G2G6 Pilot (147k points)

Any kit number that you can provide me with for comparison? You can PM me if you don't want to post it.

Andreas, it's on my WikiTree profile. I am M142637 and my late brother is T112807

+10 votes

My family has many early PA settlers that were German. GEDMATCH: GEDMatch ID A506599

by Doug Lockwood G2G Astronaut (2.4m points)
Many small matches with both my aunt and my dad (22 and 20 segments > 500 SNPs). Thanks!
Doug, look at my kit A426089.

Looks like 25.4 cm match on Chr 10.

Chris StJohn
+17 votes
I do have German ancestry that passed through Pennsylvania.  On a quick check at GEDmatch we don’t share any segments (1.0 cM but still 700 SNP) but I do share segments with Marieta West on chromosomes 13 (1.5 cM) and 16 (3.2 cM).

There are a couple of papers by Michael R. Maglio on small segment inheritance.  In “Minimum Inherited DNA Segment Size and the Introduction of Familial Autosomal Haplotypes” (4 Mar 2015) he states in the abstract “Naturally occurring cleavage sites allow for small segments to exist at recurring chromosomal locations.  These small segments can be used as familial markers in an autosomal haplotype.”  He identified a segment on chromosome 2 that seems to triangulate across all European surnames; it is in the range of 134-138 million.  He followed this with “Autosomal DNA and the Triangulation of Small Segments: A Statistical Approach” (19 Mar 2015).  Meanwhile he was doing a study looking for small segments that identify Stephen Hopkins (Mayflower) descendants.  This is reported in “Autosomal Haplotypes and the Genetic Reconstruction of Family Trees” (15 Apr 2015).  The net result is “OriginsConnector”, a new genealogical service (for a fee) that will check for descent from a large number (1000?) of 17th century immigrants to both Virginia and New England.
by Fred Mulholland G2G2 (2.1k points)
Dear Fred, thank you so much for your link to Michael's papers. I got a lot of flak and criticism in the DNA mailing list for my approach and I felt like I was the only one in the world who believed that even a small triangulated match is still a triangulated match and therefore a cousin group.

Michael delivered not only the proof with his work on some famous people, he also delivered the statistical evidence to counter their main arguments against the method by showing how unlikely there is a IBC (identity by Chance - basically created by the matching algorithm).

Currently the DTC's are only focusing on the large segments as an identifier of a triangulated group (TG) which is ok but no one has looked into the evidence that Michael has also proven that each of them had on average 6 small segments from that MRCA. So yes, the DTC's trigger the first step but once you know you found a TG than you have to identify the other much smaller segments that got split up from generation to generation and have unfortunately not "survived" as a large ancestral segment.

Now if I only could find some time to go through all the ones that answered. Really sorry that I didn't manage so far but I'm trying to find the time to write a small application that helps me keep track of all the hundreds of small matches that each two kit produces with a 1cM minimum criteria (the tool should basically identify the smaller ancestral segments for me, it's taking too much time manually).

So please bear with me and thank you for your patience


I am getting lots of matches with people with early colonial US ancestry, many with German ancestors so I did a check test for a bit of fun.  Only 500/3 though. (Is 50/1 a typo?).

My kit T350954 matches you with a 4.7cM match on C02.  It also matches my fathers paternal phased kit to 4.4cMs.  The area appears to be in a pile up region.

Interesting thing though is that two cousins have tested and we have a more significant triangulated match on a different chromosome.  They also appear to have overlapping segments with you on C02.  When I look at them only you, I and A380192 triangulate.  The other cousin A138020 doesn't seem to triangulate with you.

Our shared ancestors are and  Both from Somerset, England, with ancestor surnames of unknown origin Nouth/Nuth, Vaughan.

Look forward to seeing what you make of all this.



Is the segment area on C02 133.0-137.4?  As that is where I seem to triangulate with Andreas?
Check my kit at A426089, looking like a 603.0 cm match over 24 segments.

Chris StJohn
Chris, thats very large.  With which kit did you compare it too?  You and I have no match - who did you mean to alert?
Sorry. I mis-entered the kit number. Chris
Pity, I was a bit excited for a bit!
+10 votes

I have 2 German lines that passed through Pennsylvania (Stauffer/Stover) and (Lohnes/Lonas), I am Kit A239508. 

On your triangulated group up there, I match Edyth on Chr 2 for 2.7cM; BR Bolton on chr 6;

myself and Vivian, we share 3 segments.

Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
2 233,637,754 235,303,819 4.2 717
Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
7 11,792,364 13,899,895 3.5 710
Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
8 90,284,765 95,245,580 3.2 845




by Summer Orman G2G6 Mach 8 (86.8k points)
Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
21 40,198,919 42,215,115 8.7 812
1 182,591,275 191,320,777 5.7 1,455


All with my mum's sister. 
I have a TG with 3 more cousins on that chr 21 on 23andme.
Gedmatch shows no match between my mum and you. Her test is from 23andme as well. Hmh, can it be that there is a problem with 23andme v4 kits right now at Gedmatch??
I don't know.  Mine was done through Ancestry, not 23 and me.
Check my kit A426089. It looks like a 43.1 cm match.


Chris StJohn
+8 votes

One of my walls : Penn. Also Duseler/Dussler/Dußler from Germany to Herkimer Co., (1752) Niagra Co., NY; spread far & wide. 

Still searching Antwerp, Belgium departure to U.S / from Germany; (not sure about much of Anton/Anthony Wenzlich (SP) : & also Germany.

 Am 11% East Europe & 11% Western Europe, listed on kit# A275537 , lets get some...

 Hilfe, Spiele, verrückte Deutsche Up-In-Here ! :)

by Anonymous Vickery G2G6 Pilot (241k points)
Any kit number that you can provide me with for comparison? You can PM me if you don't want to post it.

kit# A275537

+10 votes


I have done a Y-DNA  and Family Finder Test. (Although I still have no idea what to do with them now)  My Mother's Cousin, Shaffer, has done a Y-DNA as well.  That side of my family is from nothing but German Pioneers in Pennsylvania.  We even have living relatives still in Germany who have taken DNA Tests.  They would be The Straub's (also related to President Obama)

They all came from The then Lancaster, Berks, Northampton Counties and some from the Conrad Weiser group in the Hudson River Valley (Settlement by Palatines on the east side (East Camp) of the Hudson River was accomplished as a result of Governor Hunter's negotiations with Robert Livingston, who owned Livingston Manor in what is now Columbia County, New York. (This was not the town now known as Livingston Manor on the west side of the Hudson River). The ones in PA are from the 1710's and 1720's Germany. The surnames are Albright, Steffen, Pfrang, Straub, Schumacher, Hoffman, Zimmerman, Flinspach, Zimmerman, Meyer, Krum, Klee, Brecht, Lang, Heller, Schockinger, Reickher, Deihm, Detschler, Mayer, Meyer, Majer, Mjeir, Storzbach, Kreiger, Karnagel, Stahl, Gaugler, Gaukler, Steffe, Speidel, Gulde, Haug, Kauffman, Kaufmann, Rath, Roush, Zink, Reichenbach, Martin, Dreytwein, Brezing, Gorman, Weikel, Fetter.

This is what I have for my Mother's side so far.

by Ken Wise G2G3 (3.4k points)
edited by Ken Wise
Wow exactly what I've been looking for Schumacher Steffans and Hoffman. Albert Henry Schumacher who married a Stefan's and they travel down from Poland or Germany to Pennsylvania. I'm having a whole lot of trouble matching my DNA or my mom's DNA these lines
+9 votes
I am not sure how early you are looking for, but my husband (he's out of town or would be responding himself) has alot of family that settled in western PA in the 1800s.  His profile is Nelson-9731 and his GedMatch ID is A121738.  I did not see a match when doing a quick look, but perhaps you will find more.

Good luck!
by Katie Nelson G2G Crew (950 points)
+10 votes
Yes; I just added (today) to Wikitree notice that I took the Ancestry DNA Test thIs spring. Surnames that I have in Pennsylvania are Stahl, Dressler, Tressler, Bastress and either Gelnett or Shetterly. There are others but those are the ones I am working with right now.
by David Stahl G2G Crew (500 points)
Hello David,

I hope you will add more of your ancestry to WikiTree.
+9 votes

I'm your huckleberry.

Roughly a quarter of my ancestry is German, coming from both of my grandmothers and much of it from those who settled in Pennsylvania.

It may be helpful to you to know how it breaks down as my guess is you are likely looking for Pennsylvania Dutch ancestry.

My paternal grandmother's family came from 3 main German lines. The most recent line (Reuter, Ost, Uphoff) immigrated to Philadelphia in the mid-19th century and were Catholic from Bundenbach and Birkenfeld region (former Duchy of Oldenburg, now RP), St. Wendel/Morbach Saarland region and Emsdetten in Württemberg.

Another line (Bender, Fridburg) immigrated to colonial Philadelphia in the early 18th century. They came from the Kraichgau region in Germany.

These two lines appear to be very diverse in their stock... intermarriage not so great as to be considered endogamous.

But then there's the Pennsylvanian Dutch line (Yon, Brown, Höh, Dickensheets, etc.). These ancestors came over in the 17th century and settled in Fredrick County, MD/Adams County, PA, Bedford, Blair and Huntingdon Counties, PA.  Many of them were German Anabaptist (Brethren) and, until the later 19th century, married within their small communities keeping the gene pool rather endogamous. They also came from a region in Germany (Landstuhl, Zweibrücken) whose population was highly endogamous (more on that below.)

My maternal grandmother's mother was 100% German and while her parents (who were first cousins) brought their family over in the late 19th century and settled in Illinois, they came from the very same villages and shared the same surnames as are common among Pennsylvania Dutch (Kettenring, Höh, Hollinger, Biehl, Zimmer, Trautmann, etc.).  They just happened to arrive in the US 150 years or so later.  But they were still incredibly, incredibly endogamous. 

So much so that I can't believe I haven't yet matched up with anyone through those lines...however my one Jewish grandparent's even more endogamous genes seem to be skewing my DNA match results.

My GEDmatch ID: T498657.  And my full GEDCOM (8412103) is also uploaded as well : )  Hope it helps!


by Jana Shea G2G6 Mach 3 (30.1k points)
+9 votes
I also have German ancestry (on both sides) who happened to settle in PA.

I'm still very much a noob when it comes to DNA and the things that you are talking about here, but my kit# is M871553.
by Stephanie Chelius G2G Crew (470 points)
+9 votes
Hi, maternal grandfather was Pennsylvania Dutch.  His ancestors were from the current Baden-Wurttemberg area. I do have a kit on  It is A345528
by Robert Pinder G2G1 (1.3k points)
+10 votes
FWIW, I also have Pennsylvania Dutch ancestry on my maternal side. But no DNA tests. Last names: Behrens, Bomgardner, Hoerner, Ebersole, Shoop, Krepps. More German on my father's side. A line of Clemmer / Klemmer (and Dettero [Totherow]) goes to Pennsylvania.
by Eric Weddington G2G6 Pilot (324k points)
+9 votes
My family on my Dad's side is German and Pennsylvanian.  My Dad recently took a Y-chromosome test and we have not yet received the results.  I have uploaded my GED onto Wiki if that will help.  Surnames of Derr, Bodenhamer with Derr being the likely early settler.
+7 votes

My adoptive dad was born in McKeesport, PA, and a good portion of his ancestry is German or Swiss. His ancestry includes Dreer/Dreier (from Hesse-Darmstadt, arrived in NY in 1834 & then moved to PA), Burkhardt (arrived in PA in 1754), Uhlig (from Freiberg & Bayern, arrived in US in 1860s), Lang (Sachsen, arrived in PA before 1875), Kim (Aargau, Switzerland, arrived in PA prior to 1876), Zentner (Glarus, Switzerland, arrived in PA in 1872), Ingfolder (Switzerland, arrived in PA in 1866). Other surnames are Moyers, Naegeli, Kronerin, Vogel, Wolf, Ziemert, Körb, Knerr, Nicasin, Weyer, BitterWunderlin, Baumgartner, Bitterin, and Gersbach.

His DNA kit # is A498909 on GEDmatch.

by Sandi Dreer G2G Crew (480 points)
+7 votes
I have 85% West European DNA and 10% Greece/Italy. All my lines are PA Dutch (Berks, Lancaster Cos PA) except one Irish (5%), with ancestors arriving between 1709 (Tulpehocken Colony) and late 1730s. I have uploaded my raw DNA file to gedmatch, and will upload my GEDCOM also.I hope this helps.
by Nancy Kolinski G2G Crew (780 points)
+7 votes
My 7X Great Grandfather was one of the original 13 settlers of Germantown, Pennsylvania, Paulus Kuster.  Their story is a very interesting one and easily found on the internet. I have done my DNA through AncestryDNA. I have uploaded to GEDmatch.
by Anonymous Shuman G2G Crew (410 points)
edited by Anonymous Shuman

Related questions

+3 votes
1 answer
+7 votes
0 answers
135 views asked Mar 1, 2018 in Genealogy Help by Beryl Meehan G2G6 Mach 3 (35.2k points)
+5 votes
0 answers
+7 votes
4 answers
+8 votes
1 answer

WikiTree  ~  About  ~  Help Help  ~  Search Person Search  ~  Surname:

disclaimer - terms - copyright